yes this is very much needed, I dont know how they messed up hellfires as much as they did
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and? those were still noted as worse than domestic M1A2 packages and non DU, I really dont know what your point here is because everything I said is true
Everything you’ve said is flat out wrong
DU isn’t magic, just an extremely dense material with little other practical use and fwiw the HC has marginally better armour than the AIM which shouldn’t have DU elements.
that isnt my point, my point is that all the abrams after M1a1 have an export armor package known to be worse than the domestic equivalents and happens to not have DU despite people claiming in game abrams do
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if I am reading this right green is the proposed package while red is the delivered/tested package
and half of the visible area of the tested package would have given an RHA equivalent against kinetic energy projectiles of 600mm or more when shot from 20 degrees to a the side
and for the proposed package that was still worse than domestic armor almost 70% would have 700+mm protection in the same situation
if anything in game the abrams has less armor equivalent than that proposed package as indicated by this figure
and the image on the left shows probability of penetration from a 700mm pen round at that same 20 degree angle and again in game abrams is actualy underpreforming compared to the proposed armor package
I believe this post in old forum has explained it better.
I know, ive seen that but IDK why he posted that image like it proved his point when it just showed how he was wrong
You’re still attributing the M1A1HC/A2 onwards as having “worse than export” which is wrong, the chart outright given to the Swedes by GD for the domestic M1A2 with DU stated 600 vs KE over a 30 degree frontal arc, if anything, if Gaijin were only using the Swedish tender as their source the M1A1HC/A2 armour is overperforming.
You are pulling this out of your arse as a cope, no one knows what the Swedish armour composition was or what it would have looked like, there’s only afterwords of GD workers and Army Generals way after the fact that saying export armour packages are now better than what was provided to the Swedes in the 1990s, and no doubt the armour of domestic M1s have been upgraded in the meantime.
the chart isnt for a domestic tank? why would it be, that chart is either for the armor package they tested or for the one proposed for them, both of which were distinctly noted as providing less protection than the domestic packages
in the same timeframe the UK stated the abrams offered more protection than challenger 2 but in a slightly smaller frontal arc, and the estimates for chally 2 at that time frame put it at 650mm so abrams should be over 650mm for that 60 degree frontal arc referenced
okay I’m done indulging fantasies
wow, you dont even understand what you are posting, and you entire argument was based on the invalid assumption that the swedish were allowed to have and keep a chart for US domestic armor instead of them having a chart showing the protection of the armor they would have if they bought it
you also clearly dont understand basic math because that chart shows ±30 degrees and 30+30 = 60 hence a 60 degree arc centered on the front, aka a 60 degree frontal arc
It is almost never written like that i.e. why APFSDS perforation is never listed as flat
as opposed to your valid ones kk main character.
you have literally come here and posted evidence to prove my point while claiming I am wrong, I dont know how anyone could be so stupid
- “Gaijin based M1A1HC armour of Swedish export”
- Swedish export package by GD achieved <60% turret volume of <600mm equivalent KE threat
- Somehow the same non-DU export achieves =>600mm over a +/- 30 degree arc
- In game HC achieved 690mm+ against KE threat (even the loader side acheives well over 750mm vs KE)
- “wow your evidence proved by point”
I didn’t know being a US main came a with a free lobotomy.
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yeah the apaches with hellfires are close to being useless, or so much harder to use than any other top tier heli.
missiles slow af, when target is moving you need to be locked on, anything thats in the way throws the missile off by meters, the gun is really bad for self defence cause of the bullet drop, you cant fight other helis with the hellfires and you cant fight planes when they are going for you if the pilot knows what hes doing and is not just flying straight at you.
they could have at the very least make the hellfires target the point you are actually guiding them to at launch or lets say if you guide them for a couple of seconds and not dip into the ground, like they got 0 lofting. it is so hard to do the peek back up before missile hits thing, because if you misjudge it slightly, the missile is already too close to the ground. which then doent give it enough time to get back on track but also makes it very hard hitting less armored areas of the target. because it then is on a very low trajectory hitting the tank from a similar angle like a tank round. and because it is so slow you put yourself into so much more danger to aa than other helis.
I rly dont get why they are still in that sorry state they are in, since introduction
they did
the proposed package offered >70% coverage of 600+mm
that is how they rated it, because they definitely werent given a figure like that for a domestic M1A2
it does not provide anywhere near as much armor as you are claiming over that 60 degree arc
it does, the in game abrams armor values are equal to or less than the values given in the images you posted that show the performance of the export package proposed for sweden
the other day I had 2 hellfires miss a stationary target around 4km away from me, I really dont know how gaijin has messed them up that badly
yeah its just pointless to bring apaches. completely defenseless to other helis and planes, very hard to use against ground targets. Basically as long as you are close to an allied tank or a dead tank, so he cant use lock on cause its constantly switching and you keep movin the apache cant kill you. its dumb af. Similar to ouplaying pars or spike slingers. stand next to dead tank and theres no way it will hit you. one of the only upsides imo is: when it its, it hits hard. in comparison to most other heli launched atgms.
they are only strong if you make it into one early and theres no aa up and you can ripple fire kill 4 or 5 tanks launching a hellfire every 5 seconds.
Especially with how strong cas planes are atm
A proposed package of Swedish origin, GD package barely acheived 20% >600mm
correct it provides min 600 at +30 and the base of 690 over the bulk of the turret volume does not match the figures of the GD export for Sweden in the 90s
1 does, 1 does not.
i said that meaning the abrams armor is decent in game (not sure if fine means correct also? im no a native english speaker). I meant it as it is decent, especially in comparison to a lot of other mbts.
Whether or not it is accurate to irl i cant judge and if it isn’t that should be changed. obviously these changes then would come with an adjusted br if that changes its performance to significantly better than average. and thats subject to the snails mysterious statistics of which i have no access to. same with a possibly buffed leo2whatever the version. Or any other tank.
Buff or correction leads to better performance leads to br adjustment which ofc takes time until these statistics are available which takes time