Gun damage is a little ridiculous right now

Genuinely don’t know why the game has decided that all aircraft fire mini nukes but seeing my C.202’s 2x .50cal Breda’s completely disintegrate IL2 and P-47 wings is becoming a little ridiculous. I like dragging my Macchi into high B.R matches and only the other night I managed a quick burst into a P-47M (I think), I expected minor damage to him but nope, wing ripped clean off.

I’ve noticed even in the stupid mixed nation rooms 190’s (which should be very tough little birds) are insta-shredded by my mighty twin low velocity historically anemic .50 cals. This problem isn’t just with this particular gun and round however, Shvak’s are hilariously overperforming feeling stronger even than the Mg-151 or even the Hispano. Just last night my right wing evaporated with a microscopic burst (the C.202 was also a tough aircraft compared to most) from a Yak-3. No damage build up before separation just “Poof!” gone.

Bear in mind how the Russians were very open about how weak Shvak’s were with one quote saying they were insufficient to even bring down 190F’s reliably… the whole situation is a bit ludicrous.

I know this may be an unpopular opinion but I’d genuinely prefer Realshatter to come back compared to what we have now.

Here’s a quick clip of me with the current weapon damage system dissecting 3 aircraft in just over 3 minutes with my bad aim and the historically weak Breda’s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJH84uMrc0U

I think the game is massively overrating the effects of HE fillers or at least that’s all I can think of… I know that’s definitely the case with tanks and APHE.

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Yepp. Something is a bit messed up.
I flew the japanese 190 A5 yesterday and almost everything I hit, just exploded.
The A5 is well armed, but that felt a bit like shooting rockets.

But same thing for Shvak.

A Yak3 killed me twice and it was a one hit explosion every time

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It just makes the game feel more like Call of Duty than War Thunder. As you’ve said your 190 is bristling with firepower… but when other aircraft can do pretty much the same thing with far less (like the Yak you mentioned) you’re left thinking “what’s the point?”.

It also makes my thoughts on bombers a bit of an odd one… on one hand mouse aim gunnery is bull, but at the same time the AI gunners only open up at touching distance and you’re almost instantly dissolved by anything in a single pass after 10 minutes of climbing. Tried flying the Halifax last night relying solely on AI gunners… to say it’s depressing is an understatement.

This damage model hurts everyone. Realistically nerf damage output and tough aircraft can absorb some hits again, bombers can absorb hits and attacking fighters aren’t instantly wiped out by 1x hit from an MG-151 turret.

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Planes went from light weight wooden concstruction to lift them with underpowred engines to structural extremely strong full metal planes that carry armor and can pull 10g.

LMGs were extremely effective to take down early planes because fueltanks and pilots were unprotected and planes had a hard time flying with their pilots bleeding out or fuel running out or getting set on fire.
The wings could also easily snap due to relying soley on wing spars for structural strenght.

Armor plates protecting pilots from a single bullet taking down the aircraft and self-sealing fuel tanks
made LMGs extremely ineffective, requiring larger calibers to have the same effect as before.

That’s the first issue with the game. A Pilot requires 2-3 LMG bullets and 1-2 HMG or even 20mm rounds to take out but at the same time is armor not effective enough to stop HMGs bullets.

By Gaijins standard should all plane armor be changed to High-Hardness Armor, giving it a straight 1.25x armor modifier against all rounds.
Then there’s also the issue that bullets hitting armor indirectly through the airframe would greatly reduce their penetration.

All of this gives larger calibers a clear edge, with 20mm and larger cannons having the most potential.

An IL-2 is literally a flying tank with armor protecting the pilot, engine and fuel from all sides.
At high obliquity impact the bullets might perforate the armor but still ricochet away from it, resulting in little damage to whatever is on the other side of the armor.

Of course the armor is designed mainly to protect against rifle caliber bullets.
Even 20mm HE rounds could penetrate 4-6mm of armor before exploding behind it, knocking out whatever the armor tried to protect, meaning that 20mm FlaK could make short work of IL-2.
Of course the armor was quite effective in stoping fragments from explosive rounds.
So it was still vulnerable, just not as much as other planes.

Explosive rounds have always been an issue in WT.
At times the amount of explosive was pretty much an indicator to the resulting damage, making 20mm Mineshells like 4-5 times more effective than other 20mm rounds.
Or in other words: Every 20mm that didn’t use Mineshells was extremely gimped by the explosive shells dealing far too little damage to be worth using over AP.

Right now, every 20mm cannon hits just like Mineshells did in the past, making them redundant.

I killed multiple fighter in ground RB by taking of their wings with a single 20mm explosive round.

While that is great for making some SPAA with slow firing 20mm cannons more effective, it’s just completely unrealistic. Unless you hit near the engine, fuel tanks or the pilot, 20mm explosive rounds would have little chance of downing an airplane.

During WW2, 20mm ammunition off all nations made a shift from firing soley explosive rounds to using explosive-incendiary or just incendiary shells at the end of the war.

Turns out that while a single 7.7mm Incendiary has little effect on a self-sealing fuel tank.
A 20mm Incendiary on the other hand has a very high likelyhood of setting the fuel on fire.
Again bringing the plane down with a single hit, while also having the ability to perforate armor and damage components, like engine and pilot.

In WT Incendiary ammunition ranges from barely useable to downright useless, leaving only explosive and AP rounds to deal damage.

But when a single hit can blow off a fightes wing, whats the point in setting them on fire or hitting them from behind with AP rounds?

realShatter made fragmentation barely more realistic but instead just added an RNG factor.
The same hit can either instantly kill a plane or deal hardly any damage, just based on the roll of a die.
Which is somewhat similiar to incendiary rounds working on the same principle.

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and on the other hand planes with one wing nearly complete ripped off can continue flying and sometimes land at airfield to repair… My impression is that this started with the “servere damage” mechanic…

I’ve landed with severe wing damage many times before any of the recent updates.

ok, maybe my impression is wrong - but it now seems to be more easily to rip off a wing but the plane still flys under control

I have my wing destroyed a lot more recently and I’ve also had a couple unexplainable spins… and the spin recovery mechanics could be improved. It seems I’m getting more unrecoverable spins which should have been recoverable but nothing worked, even though nothing was damaged.

But I have landed without large parts of my wing, but it wasn’t exactly “easy”.

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Just a quick display to show to anyone reading or doubting that the absurd damage isn’t a rarity. Again 2x Breda’s and here’s the dead P-47, bonus footage for a P-40… another supposedly rugged aircraft.

You’d think I had rapid fire 30mm’s.

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This seems fine to me. :P

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Yeah makes no sense.

Whether you load 12.7mm rounds with incendiary or explosive, should at most have the same efficiency in scoring a kill.
Yet explosive ammo makes it much more easy to score a kill.

Planes shouldn’t just fall appart like that.

It’s silly when people talk about the mighty Italian/Japanese 12.7mm explosive rounds, completely disregarding that Soviet 12.7mm had a much stronger explosive bullet, yet still loaded 2/3 of the ammo with API.

You simply don’t blow appart a plane unless you hit it with tons of explosives.

And all nations cut down the explosive content in favour for rounds carrying incendiary mixtures as well.

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I think its more a damage model problem.
In the Sabre I have to pump tons of .50 cal into enemies to destroy them. (with the exception of lucky pilot snipes or things like that)

Seems the game is more and more adjusted to jets and everything with a propeller is treated as paper and wood.

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Feels kinda random at times. I run stealth belts on the 20mm hispanos on the spitfire. Some targets, fall apart with a short burst. Other times, I’m unloading burst after burst into them, and only getting hits.

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Exactly mate.

It doesn’t make any sense. It makes you wonder why nations even bothered developing 20/30mm cannons when a 12.7mm with a teenie bit of filler can do this. I also remember face palming when people were praising the incoming HE rounds for the Italian and Japanese .50’s… I think as soon as the community sees “HE” they instantly believe that they’ll cause catastrophic damage when in reality you’re firing overglorified firecrackers.

But then they complain, Gaijin caves in and then you have this situation.

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I think lag plays a role as well. My internet can be spotty at times and that’s when I mainly notice the Hispanos not decimating everything in one short burst. The Shvak’s though are just insanity.

Jets are more engine and fuel tanks than props.

A few .50cal will have almost no effect on engine or fuel tanks while a single 23mm API can deal heavy damage to either of them.

Funnily enough, I’ve seen this happening commonly for a while now. While using the M61 (20x102) and the ShKAS (7.52x54) I’ve seen dozens of ricochets in bursts on armored and unarmored planes.

Exactly: there is no point whatsoever in ‘heavy hitters’ right now. I’ve had numerous experiences just like yours. Eg, out of cannon ammo in a Yak-3 and still able to insta-kaboom something with just a touch on the trigger (one 12.7 mm!); firing a short burst on mgs only (as I needed assists) in a Spitfire against AI bombers (Do 217s) mindlessly flying donuts on Dover only to see everything fall apart in a fiery mess.

Joke game.

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I also had some occsions of AI B7A2 shooting of my wing tip with their 13mm explosive rounds in RB.

If even small explosive rounds could do that in RL, they wouldn’t have loaded these guns with mostly AP and Incendiary rounds.

Damage from AP, Incendiary and particular explosive rounds is complete non sense.

Critical damage and sever damage should get players enough credit for damage to planes, then remove airfield AA and it’s no longer necessary to kill planes 10 times faster than in RL.

Ammunition and damage model need a major rework, or what’s the point of modeleing flight models to real life performance but then disregard the damage of guns inflicted on them.

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I also experienced many instances of LMGs breaking wings and tails because even AP rounds deal crazy amounts of structural damage nowadays.

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