xm803, mbt-70/kpz-70
apfsds literally the worse at its BR, armor is basically paper when met with apds/apfsds, heatfs also can pen some spot but it also suffer when atgm say hello. The only thing that its good at is mobility but then when it 1 to 1 its counterpart it just suffer
lower its rb br to ab br which is 8.7 for xm and 9.0 for the 2 mbts
I think it should be 5.3 and the 76 jumbo 5.7
The point of a tank destroyer is to give up all speed, armor, for a great cannon
No.
What do you think the jagdtiger is?
There’s 2 types of WW2 tank destroyers of note:
Casemates - basically mobile bunkers. Super good frontal armour, bad mobility, insane gun. Soviet/German approach
Whatever the hell wolverines/jacksons/hellcats are - super good mobility, insane gun, bad armour.
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It uhhh, it isn’t. M18 was a TD in real life and it’s plenty fast. Jagdtiger is undoubtedly a TD and it’s very well armored. Jagdpanther is a mix of both.
Waffentrager and Nashorn are closer to what you’re talking about but they’re by no means the only TDs.
M109 and PZH 2000 hit it anywhere for a kill - gaijin messed the over pressure to favour artillery units
Lol indeed. Lemme guess, youre a german main who never played jumbo?
moving it to be 5.0 would just make it OP.
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Name three tanks at 7.7 that have a proper cannon (not an autocannon) and can’t either front pen it or trap shot it.
Trap shots are another story bro…
Not on something as easy to trap shot as a maus.
I think you’re thinking of SPGs, self propelled guns, like the ww2 Marders, or, as PercussionCap mentioned, things like Dicker Max, Sturer Emil, Nashorn, Waffentraeger, etc. TDs are usually heavily armour casemates with low profiles and good guns, which can be easily camouflaged.
These 2 things dont add up (and are the reason why 2 didnt go in production, 1 was a stopgap, and 1 has instead a turret.)
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Which ones? I can’t remember how much armour the Dicker Max, Sturer Emil, and Nashorn have, but I remember it not being too terribly much. The Waffentraeger isn’t a casemate, but it’s still much more in the SPG category than TD.
I wasn’t trying to speak in absolutes, just in general terms. That is to say, I’d class something like the Marders as being a generally good example of SPGs, and something like the Stug as being a generally good example of a TD (not representative of American TDs, but those are so different I don’t know how I’d talk about them).
In case this is a more simple misunderstanding than I was thinking, the four I mentioned were mentioned as SPGs, not as TDs.
He isnt referring to TDs (with heavy frontal protection) here, he classed these vehicles (dicker max, marder, etc) as SPGs. With poor protection and higher than average firepower.
This is in reference to the majority of casemate “tank destroyers” such as the Stug, Stuh, Foch, Su-85/Su-100, T95 GMC and many others.
I’ll bite, here’s my top picks:
-The whole Ariete family.
-OTOMATIC
def a jumbo player who rushed on a m-51 and got one shotted.
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Su-22M3 11.3 ARB 10.3 GRB >10.3 ARB/AAB 9.3 GRB literally has no place in 11.3 Air and 10.3 Ground
its AAM is too dookie for 11.3 and it’s surface missile is too inferior to other counterpart
m56 6.7>6.0-6.3 (cause it has no armor and dies to machine guns)
Merkava Mk. 2D
9.7 → 9.3
it doesn’t perform differently than the Merkava Mk. 2B and 1B, the composite doesn’t help at all.
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