Get the F-104, MiG-19 and A-4N Ayit out of early cold war era matches

The F-104 (all 9.3 variants) is way too fast, the MiG-19 (the chinese 9.0s should move too) climbs far too good and the A-4N has 4 undodgable missiles. All of them sit at 9.3 and have been ruining 8.3-9.3 for months now.

Suggestion: Move all of them them to 10.0 to clean the mid-high tier BRs.

10 Likes

10.0 would kill them if proper decompression isn’t done. 9.7 would be way better than doing a Gaijin moment by moving every Sabre/Mig-15/17 down by .3.

3 Likes

How does it kill them? The only thing the first 2 lack are flares and they would simply become balanced now. The F-104 is too fast to put it any lower. The MiG-19 has 10.3 levels of flight performance and the A-4N has better ground strike/anti air capabilities than most 10.0 aircraft combined in 1 plane.

Even if they suffer I’d rather have 3 planes have a bad time than these 3 ruining 8.3+BR.

2 Likes

The A-5C which is better is at 10.0
It’s a Mig-19

With:
2 Missiles
Flares

I cannot for the life of me figure out how the A-5C is only 10.0

3 Likes

Bad example. The A-5C is undertiered as well. Better than the F-5C and lower as well.

1 Like

It’s definitely not better than the F-5C
F-5C>10.7
A-5C> 10.3

Would be ok imo

2 Likes

Because all they (F-104/Mig-19) have is speed. They don’t have missiles, and not having flares is much worse than you realize. The Mig-19 does not have 10.3 flight performance, it can’t hit mach below 2000m. The A5C is a modified Mig-19, with much better capabilities at 10.0. And only .3 above them would be the F-5C, and the Mig-21SMT/MF.

Just move them all to 9.7 and then it would be fine.

2 Likes

The A-5C has 35G missiles and better energy retention.

Because all they (F-104/Mig-19) have is speed.

And they have a shit ton of it. The F-4C and F-105 are 10.0 too so the F-104s will be fine. The MiG-19 type planes however can dogfight 10.3 easily.

1 Like

it is slower, turns much worse, the high speed control is non existant, the guns are awful and low amount of flares…

It acceleration is far better, it climbs better, it turns better sustained, it has 35G missiles.

1 Like

sure the sustain is better, but by the time that it actually matter youre already died, as the turn rate is much better on the f5c, and the 35g missile can easily be flared. you have 60 of them on the f5c

You have an airbrake you can decrease your speed and turn better than the F-5C. Skill issue.

you still out turn it with the f5c even if you use the air break.

4 Likes

Tell that to the B-57, F-84F, F9F or Javelin that have to face Aim-9Ds.

Also the F-4C, F-105, … all don’t have flares and experience this already. The F-104 and MiG-19 will have to suffer until decompression.

1 Like

Im of 2 very different minds with these aircraft. The first. I absolute hate fighting them in the Javelin, Sea-Vixen, Hunter. In fact literally any sub-sonic aircraft that doesnt have a very good AAM. They suck to fight.

On the other hand, from experience in the lightning. It sucks to fight the 10.3s in which your only defence is to just run away from and avoid ever entering weapons range. Though some aircraft. Like the A-5C, will easily catch-up to you and take you down.

So they are impossible to balance with the current compression. They all could probably be fine at 9.7 (my experience it doesnt matter whether you play 9.3 or 9.7 you are pretty always fighting 10.3s, but thats just me, some people seem to get constant downtiers, i only ever get uptiers) but 10.0 would probably be a death sentence, at least for now.

But whether several aircraft should be DOA so that others have a chance is a difficult thing to decide.

(as a side note, Lightning should also move up as a super-sonic at 9.3 But its in a different situation than the F-104. Once Red Tops get fixed/buffed/overhauled whatever you want to call it, it will probably need a BR increase anyway. Comfortably 9.7, maybe even skirting 10.0. Though that really depends on the state of Red Tops)

3 Likes

The Mig-19 doesn’t even have that much speed. It can’t break mach 1 below 2000m. It is equal to an F-5c performance wise, but it lacks everything you’d expect a 10.3 jet to have. The F-4C is a phantom, and has missiles. The F-105 is very fast and has good payload.

You also fail to mention how it will compare to the 10.3-11.0 planes it would face every match.

Say it together now, decompression. Say it as often and as loudly as nessesary to get it to sink in. Quibbling about how certain vehicles just need uptiers is missing the forest for the trees.

Everything is fighting vehicles they simply should not be fighting because those vehicles cannot be pushed up without placing them up against vehicles that they shouldn’t be fighting. So we push everything down, causing new vehicles to be fighting things they shouldn’t be fighting, and the cycle continues.

Decompression is the only answer that properly addresses this problem. Take top tier, shove it up by at least 1.0 BR, then start moving things up as needed to stretch out the BRs properly. This would not be technically difficult to do, and resolves the entire problem all at once. We should expect nothing less.

7 Likes