Geschützwagen Tiger

[Ghostmaxi]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• No

I would like to suggest the Geschützwagen Tiger, while it is allready passed for concidderation, it doesnt hurt to have it also here on the new forum.
It was build after long development time at the end of ww2, to get the 17 cm K. 72 L/50 and 21 cm M. 18 L/31 in a mobile form on the field, but also to dismount it and use it as an ammo carried which was also its downfall, as that ability with the requirement to use the full unmodified Mörserlafette 18 which can carry the 17 cm K. 72 L/50, 21 cm M. 18 L/31 and 15 cm Sk C/28 L/55 (All 3 guns were used as production of the 17 and 21 cm guns alone couldnt keep up with the demand). This increased the required space, hindered the capabilitys and increased the weight.

Overall The Geschützwagen Tiger is based on the Tiger II Hull, beeing extended, placing the engine in the middle and reducing the armour to a minimum. With the Hull front beeing 30mm superstructure 16mm at an angle as well as the sides and rear beeing 16mm.
It can go up to max 45 kmh with the HL 230P30 engine limited to 650Ps/2500rpm and overall weight of 60 tons.
The Ammo would be 5+1 of 17cm, 3+1 of 21 cm and 7+1 of 15 cm, this could however be artificially increased by the addition of an ammo trailer (like on the Chi-Ha LGs ammo box at the back which wasnt there IRL).
The 17 cm K. is also known under 17 cm K. 18 L/50, 17 cm K. 44 L/50 and of course 17 cm K. 72 L/50

Traverse is 5° to both sides each and elevation is -2° to +48° (17 cm) +50° (15cm) and +68° (21cm)

I suggest all guns possibly as modifications as depending where the G.W. Tiger is placed considdering that its pretty much a Glasscannon/Much cannon with few metal around it, the performance in guns isnt that important, because it will certainly go through.
Pictures:

Spoiler

Performance of the Guns:
17 cm K. 72 L/50:

Pzgr. 43 Apcbc 71 kg 2,345 kg Fp.02 and Np.10 filler (3 kg TnTa) 850 m/s with 303mm/10m penetration

K.Gr. 39 He 68 kg 7,33 kg Fp.02 and Np.10 filler (9,38 kg TnTa)

21 cm M.18 L/31:

Gr. 18 Be Sapbc 121,4 kg 11,5 kg filler of Fp.02 und Np.10 (14,72kg) 565 m/s with 163mm/10m penetration

Gr. 18 He 133kg 17,35 kg Fp.02 and Np.10 Filler (22,21 kg TnTa) 565m/s

---

12 cm Rö. Gr. 42 Be Saphedsfs 193 kg 2,86 kg filler unknown velocity

12 cmRö. Gr. 44 Be Saphedsfs 193 kg 7,255 kg filler unknown velocity (see 42 Be)

Datasheet for the 21 cm Mrs 18 L/31

15 cm Sk C/28 L/55: (Like found on Admiral Graf Spee)
Pzgr. L/3,7 (m.Hb.) Apcbc 45,5 kg 1,1 kg Fp.02 875 m/s 283mm/10m
Sprgr. L/4,5 Kz (m.Hb.) He 45,5 kg 3,64 kg Fp.02 875 m/s 37mm/all
Sprgr. L/4,4 Bdz (m.Hb.) Sapbc 45,5 kg 3,03 kg Fp.02 875 m/s
Sources:
Dokumentation W127
Panzer Tracts No. 10
Geschoßringbuch
H.Dv. 481/41 Munition des 21 cm Mörsers 18
H.Dv. 119/562 Schußtafel für den 21 cm Mörser 18
H.Dv. 119/484 Schußtafel für die 15 cm Kanone in Mörserlafette

Merkbl.geh. 28/1 Zusammenstellung der Explosvistoffgewichte für deutsche Munition

[Aurelian_ROW]

+1

[LamawDoniczce]

The only question is whether they mounted a cannon on him, if there are no problems he would be in the game, and I think he would be more of a destroyer, seeing that he is 170cm pzgr, with a pretty high muzzle velocity, it would be interesting to have 6.7-7.0

[BlusteryBark6]

With 150mm images of t44 and is2 turning a corner and seeing a L55 150mm gun with 280mm of pen is good

[warner7]

Massive +1, If people call D-25T a nuke cannon, this is a Tsar Bomba cannon

[Chris4win]

would be a cool tank destroyer. With only -2° depression, no armor and probably similar reload to the sturmtiger I would place it max. at 6.0

[Insanerobert]

Although I am a big fan of self-propelled howitzers, I would prefer to see others joining the game before this one, like Hommel, Grille or Wespe. They are way less limited in ammo, gun traverse and reload time and smaller in profile, plus the others were fielded and their performance is very well documented.

I would estimate it will behave like a Sturer Emil but worse, due to it’s limited gun depression, worse armor, heavier weight, higher reload time and limited ammo count. It might be able to donk people from time to time, but in most cases it will not fit the War Thunder gameplay style.

[Thug Shaker Actual]

That seems kind of really low. 45kg of HE, how much pen does this have? Its also huge which aids survival. This would be a crazy fun derp gun, but seeing it at 5.0 would be crazy and we have howitzers with much less HE filler at much higher BRs

[Chris4win]

@Thug Shaker Actual

e have howitzers with much less HE filler at much higher BRs

which have all probably 1/3 of the reload time, are much more mobile and aren’t as big. It needs to be low enough to face heavy tanks (it’s a ww2 vehicle afterall and was designed to face ww2 heavys and not post war vehicles). Sturmtiger is 5.7 and has even more he filler. Guns aren’t everything if every other aspect sucks and that will be the case on this vehicle. It will be out of meta at every br.

[Ghostmaxi]

45,5 kg is the Shell not the filler.

[KillaKiwi]

It’s kinda like the Dicker Max and Sturer Emil, except with the massive 17cm cannon the vehicle is even more limited. No gun depression, only carries 5 rounds, super slow reload.

Reload times goes up from 10s for the Dicker Max to ~15s on the Sturer Emil.
With the 12.8cm you already get a lot of pen and overpressure but the 17cm shells weigh more than twice as the 12,8cm shells. So we’re talking at least 30s (FV4005).

Even, if it could penetrate any vehicle it sees, the Sturer Emil could still most of them as well, but with a half the RoF and great gun depression.

While I originally I envisioned the vehicle be to be some sort of super tank destroyer, I think it’s just too limited to be effective.

[Ghostmaxi]

But it is a Mememachine. :3

[KillaKiwi]

Maybe as a Event Reward like the Sturmtiger ;)

[Thug Shaker Actual]

I can see your point. A 60s reload is a massove hinderance, moreso even moreso

[Ghostmaxi]

I found something interesting, the 21 cm Mörser 18 L/31 it also can have, can fire both the 21 Rö Gr 42 and 44 Be.
Which is for those who dont know huge Semiapdsfs for big guns
Source:
Merkbl.geh. 28/1 Zusammenstellung der Explosvistoffgewichte für deutsche Munition

Now just the stats to that are missing, but that shouldnt be too hard to find, they are relatively well documented, as well as were of interest to the USA, which captured good stocks of them.

Only hard to find will be the velocity when fired from sayed L/31 gun, as they were mainly used for the big arty pieces and cannons.

So overall its logical, and the next step in ammo development to encrease range and effect after previous Sprgr. And Pzgr TS, which used conventional rounds.

[Ghostmaxi]

Sadly, i was not able to find more precise data, however
the Rö. Gr. 42 Be was a Saphedsfs round of 12 cm and 193 kg with 2,86 kg He filler
while the 44 Be was pretty much identical, but longer with 7,255 kg He filler
Velocity is unknown for me, it may be fired at higher charge with also 550 m/s or lower, but by gaijins calculator for the 42 with even 450 m/s it will still penetrate 372mm/10m and with 550 m/s 495mm/10m

Tho i am shure gaijin will find more in their archives with their historians, considdering it was after the war extensively tested by the USA.

Pictures(Click to show)

I may look some more.

[SmørentheBustard]

Thats most definently what is up toobz

[Armen_Lozone]

damne bro, that thing looks like it can kill the yamato

[Chris4win]

@Ghostmaxi

huge Semiapdsfs

LoL imagine people complaining about heatfs just for them to get destroyed by a ww2 vehicle with apfsds like ammo

[Ghostmaxi]

On a side note, these shells existed from 2 cm to 80 cm or so.
Mainly for the railway guns, but also for the 3,7 cm Pak, 10,5 cm K.18 and Flak 38/39 and so on.

The 10,5 cm to 4,5 cm one is perhaps the 2nd most interesting imo.