Germanys late jets: 528 days

Game Discussion General Discussion
,
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is the average it takes for a plane to enter the German Air Tree after another nation has gotten the same or similar plane.

528 days.

The German Air tree post WW2 is special. Because of obvious reasons, Germany was not allowed to produce their own jets.
Also the German TT has is the inclusion of both, the West German and the East German Planes due to Germany being devided after the War.

Right now, the German Air Tree has 30 post WW2 jets, soon 31 with the ICE coming.
Out of these 30 jets, 5 are premium, 1 is squadron and 3 are event vehicles.
Out of these 30 jets, only 4 are domestically build: The 3 Tornados and the Alpha Jet.

Reading the Forum and lately the discussion on the upcoming ICE, I picked up on the fact that Germany always got their aircraft later than others.
So I dived into the updates, all the way back to update 1.27, the start of the Open Beta.
I excluded the domestically build jets, the Premiums and the Squadron-Hunter from the post WW2 jets considered.

These are the results:

Only tree planes were added at the same time as their counterparts:

  • The F-84F
  • The F-104G
  • The MiG-21MF

Every other plane was added at least one major update, most even more than two major updates later.

Plane Delay Original Plane
MiG-29G 42 days after the MiG-29SMT
MiG-19S 57 days after the MiG-19PT
MiG-29 77 days after the MiG-29
Su-22UM3K 100 days after the Su-22M3
MiG-23MLA 147 days after the MiG-23ML
MiG-23MF 195 days after the MiG-23M (and as an event vehicle)
CL-13 Mk.5 232 days after the F-86F-2 or 440 days+ after the F-86A-5
Mig-21bis-SAU 345 days after the Mig-21bis
F-86K 363 days after the French one and 258 days after the Italian one
Su-22M4 364 days after the Su-17M4
Mig-23BN 372 days after the MiG-27M
MiG-15bis 440 days+ after the MiG-15bis (was in the Game since Closed Beta)
F-4F 443 days after the F-4E
F-4F early 546 days after the F-4C or 359 days after the F-4E
G.91 R/3 839 days after the G.91 R/1
CL-13 Mk.6 1996 days after the F-86F-2
IL-28 2155 days after the IL-28
Lim-5P 2374 days after the MiG-17

Reaching back to the Start of the Open Beta in 2014, the German Air Tree was never up to par with the US or the USSR one.
Germany always, with rare exceptions, received their jets later than others. They were always held back and therefore never really competitive from the get go.

Now it doesn’t matter anymore I would say. Germany has almost no planes left that could be added. Lets just hope those come without delay.

The only question left standing is:
Why couldn’t Germany receive their vehicles at the same time to stay competitive?
Other nations seem to be able to get them the same time, so why not Germany?

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Well, you are here talking about him having nothing going on in his life. That’s a start. You can get to his level any time soon, just keep the grind dude.

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I wish you had even more going on in your life to have so little time as to not leave useless snarky remarks on people’s posts who take the time to write something out that you disagree with.

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How much of the issue is caused by Germany just not buying stuff, though? Like how many BRs or vehicle types (fighters, bombers, or attackers) were missing versus somewhat unnecessary filling in? Not saying that Germany should be stuck with the ICE.

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No, but it’s a fair point. It’s the same reason that the US doesn’t have a dedicated top tier US SPAAG, France a light tank, or Italy a decent MBT.

Not purchasing stuff simply means their isn’t stuff available. Because of this, of course they will be lacking a bit. There isn’t much that can be done except for theoreticals and hyperboles, which is something I don’t think very many people want

And of course people will say “oh well XYZ came way later” yes, it did. Probably because of the game limitations and questions- like what armaments would this plane get? How do we balance it out? A lot of these planes were bought later- and because of that, the armament that it had isn’t necessarily good for the game, or for balance, or perhaps it is either too over/underwhelming. Its a question of what do we add? If I recall correctly, when the F-4F was added, there was a new precedent about armament that had emerged and adding theoreticals for the sake of Balance.

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Well Germany cannot really get what they didn’t buy, and they haven’t really gotten anything in Game they did not own.
And the issue of aircraft just not coming with its peers, but much later is not connected to how and when Germany bought or operated these planes IRL.

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I mean yeah I get that the IRL adoption date doesn’t matter (the technology does), but how much of the German jet tree was genuinely needed rather than filling in stuff that wasn’t needed? Because getting some copy-paste jets later on when they weren’t really needed isn’t an issue in itself (the real issue is that more interesting and/or more domestic planes weren’t coming, even if they get added late).

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Like all the Top-Tier jets (and Jets that once were top tier).
The MiGs (Lim-5P, 19, 21bis, 23MF, 23MLA, 29, 29G); the Phantoms (F-4F (e) and regular F-4F); the Sabres (CL-13 Mk.5 and Mk.6).
All of them were Top-Tier jets once, and all of them came to Germany way way later than to US or USSR. So Germany was never really competitive in Top-Tier Air, because they almost always got their Top-Tier later than everyone else, and sometimes even at the same time as others got their better Top Tier:

  • MiG-21bis-SAU same update as the MiG-23MLD
  • F-4F same update as MiG-23M and 3 updates after the MiG-21bis

Yes, some of them could be considered “filler” now, like the Lim-5P that came 6.5 years after the MiG-17, but they certainly would not have been filler if they were added earlier, together with its peers.

As for domestic aircraft: Those all came in the same update as other nations got them. But due to the simple matter, that there are 4 domestic vehicles in the post-WW2 jets (3 of them being a Tornado and 1 Alpha Jet) out of 30 jets, it really does not make a difference.

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Did I say I disagree with him? Careful where you throw those stones…

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Planes are added during major updates, not days.
So unfinished vehicles have to wait until the next major update they’re finished between in order to be added.
Thus it’s disingenuous to talk in days when it should be updates beyond the next major update, for which many are removed.

To address the specific vehicles though.
Su-22UM3K is a different jet that’s rather superior to the Su-22M3.
LIM-5P is just a flat out superior jet over the Mig-17, it should be 0.3 higher TBH but that BR is compressed.
Mig-23BN is not a Mig-27M.
And so on and so forth.

Next major update should be considered “same time”, as that means the vehicle was not quite finished for the previous update, but finished shortly after.

Of the extremely few aircraft that were same time different update, they weren’t finished in time for the previous update, AKA not in a playable state.
It takes months to years to develop vehicles.

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Imho the answer is obvious:

Because they are happy to take money from players which enjoy playing Germany, but gaijin is not really interested to keep them competitive.

Your post is actually the equivalent of US players complaining about missing competitiveness of the top tier tanks - the only difference is that US teams have abysmal low WRs in top tier Ground RB and Air RB - whilst Germany has at least in top tier Ground RB decent WRs.

I recommend to use this tool:

…to analyze WRs in Air RB and Ground RB of the big 3 - and then check the WR of UK, China and France and you can come to your own conclusions.

If you want to change something you have to vote with your wallet.

I replied recently to a similar thread:

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Major updates should come with all the vehicles necessary for a competitive field, they knew this day was coming 10 years ago, this gap in the German aviation tree was obvious to everyone forever, they had plenty of time to research and prepare an alternative, a 3rd gen Phantom isn’t that.

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Ok, let me rephrase:

Plane Updates later Original Plane
MiG-29G 1 after the SMT
MiG-19S 1 after the MiG-19PT
MiG-29 1 after the MiG-29
Su-22UM3K 1 after the Su-22M3
MiG-23MLA 2 after the MiG-23ML
MiG-23MF 3 after the MiG-23M (and as an event vehicle)
CL-13 Mk.5 2 after the F-86F-2 or at least 3 after the F-86A-5
Mig-21bis-SAU 5 after the Mig-21bis
F-86K 5 after the French one and 4 after the Italian one
Su-22M4 5 after the Su-17M4
Mig-23BN 5 after the MiG-27M
MiG-15bis 7+ after the MiG-15bis
F-4F 6 after the F-4E
F-4F early 8 after the F-4C or 5 after the F-4E
G.91 R/3 11 after the G.91 R/1 or 2 after the G.91 R/4
CL-13 Mk.6 26 after the F-86F-2
IL-28 29 after the IL-28
Lim-5P 32 after the MiG-17

No it shouldn’t. They always seem to have the others ready when only the German one is not.
Italy, China, Israel all got their F-16s the same time the US got theirs.
UK got their Gripen the same time, Japan and Israel their F-15s the same time, China the Su-27 the same time, but not Germany. Germany does not get their Top-Tier at the same time.

Tomato, Tomato: same or similar, as I stated before. They might not be 100% the same vehicles, but they are of the same type and very, very similar.

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Should doesn’t mean they will. That statement is also for you @DiamondCraftLP
For a 5 - 18 month vehicle project, having a hiccup during the last month of dev means it can miss that major update and be scheduled for the future one.
That’s why I say 2+ updates after.
Cause 1 update can mean it was finished the day after the previous update went gold or up to the final week before release of the next major update.
However, 2 updates later is a minimum of the time between update went gold for 1.1 and after update went gold for 1.2. [Numbers are a visual guide].

So Mig-23MLA for example took 1 major update + unknown amount of days to finish as shown with @DiamondCraftLP 's updated table.
I appreciate the change, by the way. Thank you, Diamond.

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It is still strange that it apparently only happens to the German Aircraft.
And with the new Top-Tiers essentially being copy-paste of each other it is even stranger that they couldn’t finish 1 more copy on time.

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Oh, it happened with many more.
F-16AJ, F-4J, Yak-141, Mirage 2000C, and so on.
I haven’t cataloged every aircraft that came 1, 2, or more updates after their competition.

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Just seems they are working way too close to a deadline for literally no reason, you can have things planned way in advance, the fact updates are being promoted and pushed out before vehicles are even completed yet is entirely unnecessary when you can allow yourself a buffer.

And when a vehicle is delayed you don’t have to delay it even further for a next update, the timespan listed in the original post is way beyond reason.

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No, that’s not what it means at all.
There is a buffer as well, which further disproves your claim.

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if that was the issue, then there wouldnt have been an average of 528 days between germany getting their share of vehicles because, fun fact, they would never have gotten them!