thats all we want a garantue that it will come in the future updates
Germany is lacking in that department imo.
I also main Germany, and I think I’ve given you a more articulate and civil reply about why I’m perplexed by some of your arguments. Frankly, I find it a little irritating when these discussions always default around who mains what.
The benefit of the game comes first, and all tech trees should be competitive. Therefore, the lack of quantity in some minors’ trees should be addressed as an absolute priority.
That doesn’t invalidate many of the issues that cropped up with this particular situation.
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I wouldn’t really care if they just fixed the Puma.
The issue on hand is that Germany doesn’t have a vehicle like the KF41 and a simple fix is the addition of a Puma with additional armaments like Spikes. If I’m missing something please inform me and if not I’ll most likely remain on the side of Germany not needing the KF41.
Instead of writing entire paragraphs of non-related things tell me the key things about the KF41, how it won’t devalue the Italian/Hungarian KF41 and how it won’t be superior to the Hungarian KF41 (by being in a better Tech Tree) in any way.
Problem is it isnt as simple as slapping spikes on the Puma, the whole Puma needs a rework because it is broken, and knowing gajins speed look at the PSO even then in a broken state as well, it will need another few years until we get a working Puma, while in the meantime the KF41 looks in a promising half finished state were only the APS system is missing, the KF41 would make it possible that we get an IFV upgrade in half a year with hungary exclusivity compared to possible wait time of another 2-3 years until they finaly decide to fix something
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When the Puma was added a year and a half ago, it was a bug ridden dumpster fire. A forum post 160 pages long of people proving and providing sources to address those issues has more or less fallen onto deaf ears. The vehicle is STILL incomplete after all this time (even by ignoring the spikes).
THE FIX is adding vehicle designed by Germans, tested by Germans to the German tech tree, as well as having it in the Hungarian sub tech tree.
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Instead of writing entire paragraphs of non-related things tell me the key things about the KF41 , how it won’t devalue the Italian /Hungarian KF41 and how it won’t be superior to the Hungarian KF41 (by being in a better Tech Tree ) in any way.
People getting fixated on how Germany getting an IFV they developed, tested (it still has to be tested by Germany herself due to strict export laws fyi) will “devalue” Hungary part 146.
Just to promptly ignore Hungary has 3 actually unique vehicles, the rest is C&P and the KF41 whose only unique feature is a German developed APS (which was funded by Germany as part of the national project to make a homegrown APS system that could replace Trophy).
I’m honestly baffled that people are unironically coming up with excuses like;
- Germany doesn’t it
- It’s not actually German
In order to argue that KF41 shouldn’t be provided to Germany. It’s also rather funny that you make use of arguments like “oo German main”, it devalues everything else you say and may even prompt responses along “oo Italy main”.
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AMAP-ADS was developed by IBD, long before putting an APS on a Leopard was even being considered.
Resently you say about unique vehicle for Hungary. Leopards designed by Germany unique? No sweden have 2a6 and 2 strv. You are telling something about this? Hungary will have 2a7HU. Really good. Now we will have 2 tech trees better in German vehicles, than German.
The real point of the Hungarian Tech Tree was to add the unique KF41 no? If by adding it to Germany wouldn’t it just make the Hungarian Tech Tree a literal copy and paste then?
Almost all 7.3+ Hungarian vehicles already exist in other Tech Trees and by giving away their only unique Top Tier vehicle will only just make it less worthwhile to grind since you could just get everything plus better in the German Tech Tree.
Let me make a example by using the British Tech Tree. The F-4 Phantom (FG.1 & FGR.2) have been missing the AIM-9Ls, AGM-12, SRAAMs and the AWG-11/AWG-12/AWG-10 for the longest amount of time yet you don’t see people begging Gaijin for a foreign vehicle the British never operated?
But hey look just because the KF41 seems like it would be any good doesn’t mean it will actually perform well in-game. Look at the QN506, everyone thought it would be a great vehicle yet little to no person plays it in 2023 for the reason of fire and forget missiles being absolutely trash and nothing but trash.
You may say “but it’s a German design” and I say look at the Hunter F.58, a GREAT Squadron vehicle in Germany with British origins, operated by the British and designed in the United Kingdom yet it’s in the German Tech Tree.
Sure with the current state of the Puma apparently being “broken” shouldn’t be acceptable doesn’t mean you should deprive nations of their uniqueness because a IFV you barely play isn’t performing as good as you want it to be.
Several vehicles in game have been languishing in incomplete and buggy states for years. That is an inevitable consequence of placing a firm focus on adding more stuff all the time, accumulating old bug reports and always postponing their fixing. You can’t really fault players for being sceptical that this will be addressed.
It’s possible that they don’t. Does Italy need an addition to the Freccia? Well, obviously they desperately need more quantity of everything in general, although this particular vehicle class probably wasn’t the most urgent for them to be filled.
Still, you’re overlooking the internal consistency of this implementation: does Russia need the 2S1? That could also have been made exclusive to Hungary, and it wasn’t. Does that upset you? Do you think it devalues the Italo-Hungarian tree?
You can’t really prove a negative, mate. You’re the one asserting that the tree would be devalued, so the burden of proof is on you.
For me, I can only tell you my honest opinion. Having an M26, or an M18, or a StuG, does not devalue the Italian tree just because other countries also have those. I don’t see why the KF41 would be different…
Well. Will the Italian T-72 be inferior to other T-72s because it is in a worse tech tree? Do people not play the Italian M18 because it’s in a more depopulated tech tree?
The British ground tree already includes export vehicles Britain did not operate. Therefore, it is quite clear to me that the “rule” used by Gaijin for vehicle placement is not, in fact, “operators only”. If that was the case, those vehicles would not be in the game.
The TAM uses a license manufactured MTU-MB 833 Ka-500 engine wich it’s Made principaly by a German company and produces in Argentina under a license
The real point of the Hungarian Tech Tree was to add the unique KF41 no? If by adding it to Germany wouldn’t it just make the Hungarian Tech Tree a literal copy and paste then?
That’s just a bunch of assumption though. If I had to say, the official reason behind the addition of Hungary was to provide Italy with a larger selection of vehicles and a more potent line-up. KF41 is nothing more than a means to an end, nothing more.
Hungary is already more of less a C&P of Germany & Russia however, like… have you looked at their tree at all? There’s only 4 vehicles in there that aren’t in other TTs already, those being the low-tier ones and the KF41, majority (70%+ of the sub-tree) is C&P. There’s nothing unique about them.
You may say “but it’s a German design ” and I say look at the Hunter F.58 , a GREAT Squadron vehicle in Germany with British origins, operated by the British and designed in the United Kingdom yet it’s in the German Tech Tree .
My guy, everyone here already told that everyone (and I mean it) was against the F.58s addition, yet you’re holding onto it like it’s the gospel of truth meant to make you win this argument, it isn’t. I’m positive it’s the THIRD time I explain the F.58 to you, do you not read our responses and only latch onto specific statements of ours or what?
Sure with the current state of the Puma apparently being “broken ” shouldn’t be acceptable doesn’t mean you should deprive nations of their uniqueness because a IFV you barely play isn’t performing as good as you want it to be.
Man, that Leopard 2A6 in Swedish TT is really looking nice right now! I wonder if you will get what I mean by that…
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Several vehicles in game have been languishing in incomplete and buggy states for years. That is an inevitable consequence of placing a firm focus on adding more stuff all the time, accumulating old bug reports and always postponing their fixing. You can’t really fault players for being sceptical that this will be addressed.
Well that doesn’t mean you need to deprive a nation (especially Hungary) of their only unique vehicle being the KF41 IFV.
Still, you’re overlooking the internal consistency of this implementation: does Russia need the 2S1? That could also have been made exclusive to Hungary, and it wasn’t. Does that upset you? Do you think it devalues the Italo-Hungarian tree?
Yes it does devalue the uniqueness of the Hungarian Sub Tree that shouldn’t be used to make a comparison to the issue on hand. Russia/the Soviets have been famous for using the 2S1 and by taking it away from them for a small Sub Tree would be ridiculous but on the other hand the KF41 has never been operated by Germany and isn’t known for operating them (unlike the Hungarians).
Italy has enough unique vehicles with centauro and otomatic which makes their top tier stand out. Germany developed it and should get it. If not you can remove many italian ww2 aircraft because at time germany annexed italy (after italy surrender to the americans) and their engineers worked for germany. These planes were developed by italy but were used by italians under germany. So ItAly nEvEr uSeD tHem!!!
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My guy, everyone here already told that everyone (and I mean it) was against the F.58s addition, yet you’re holding onto it like it’s the gospel of truth meant to make you win this argument
Well I’m using it as a template since that’s clearly how Gaijin goes about implementing things, and they’ve already said that the KF41 won’t be going to Germany this patch so shouldn’t that be final anyways? I don’t see a point arguing since nobody is truly and really opening a ear and looking from their perspective anyways…
Csaba. Zrinyi. Turan. And then there’s the stuff we’re missing and that I’m baffled is not in this tree, like their own unique T-72, or the Nimrod.
No, quite clearly it would not. After all, they do not need it, do they? You say it can’t be done because they’ve used it, but once again, clearly that’s not a criterion, or they wouldn’t have the 2S38, which is not in service.
You’re trying to defend a rule that does not exist. Vehicles are placed where Gaijin believes it will better serve their interests, which makes sense. The rest is a justification for later. If “used or not used” would be a criterion, the Maus wouldn’t be in the German tree, and many Soviet prototypes would also be out the window.
Once we have established that there is no rule, we can talk about the real reasons for placing a vehicle in a certain exclusive spot, such as Gaijin’s belief that it will motivate more people to grind a certain tree.
Personally, I find that gimmicky and weird. If Italy gets a Tiger E, it will not dent my motivation to play my German Tiger E in my lineup.
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As soon as you upgrade at least rank 7 in Germany, your review will be relevant, but for now, keep your opinion to yourself (This user has only Tiger H1 from the highest rank)
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