General Japanese & Thai Ground Forces Discussion HQ

Would love to know where do you see the camo patern?

You can see the lighter patch in the mid section. I edited it a bit to hopefully make it clearer.

Fuji’s bald eagle. The coolest (⌐▨_▨)

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I think I’m going to add onto this a bit, looking at it some more its definitely IR and not UV, or NIR but rather SWIR aka short wave infrared. It has similar looks as thermals without having the same sensitivity to temperatures of materials

SWIR vs LWIR/MWIR/NIR

If an object is hot enough, you can even see heat as visible light. But, for detecting heat effectively across a broad range of more normal temperatures (-20°C to 50°C), we rely use thermals because of blackbody radiation, which all objects emit based on their temperature, peaks within the 8-14 micron range. The detection capabilities also vary depending on the materials involved; generally, man-made materials emit more in the LWIR spectrum and less in SWIR.

I believe its most likely SWIR, possibly MWIR, due to their higher sensitivity compared to NIR, (common in security cameras). Both SWIR and MWIR are good in very low-light conditions. SWIR makes most sense in my opinion due to it’s closer to the visible spectrum like NIR but offers better penetration through smoke like in the video post-firing. While MWIR and LWIR could also see through smoke and would typically show a heated barrel very clearly. Though it could be that the sensor is not capable of picking up the temperature change.

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So if I undertand it correctly it is some type of thermal imagining?

Uh well nope. WW2 japan still suffers. Trying to change that, but not sure if something gonna change: Japan is basically worst tank nation low - mid tier - please fix (brs, lineups etc.) - #8 by ChieftainWarrior

lol. WW2 Japan is just fine. Not amazing, but definitely not awful either. There are BR changes that should be made (and more low tier vehicles added), but it doesn’t ‘suffer’. For a new player maybe, but not every vehicle can be made new-player-proofed because different countries have different doctrines and different vehicle characteristics. The US or USSR largely have decent all-rounder vehicles, while Japanese WW2 vehicles tend to favour mobility and firepower over armour.

Ho-ros gun depresion got recently decresed to just -5° for some reason.

Oh really? Can you tell me what does Chi-Nu favor for example then? Its worse in every possible way than all its same Br competation. Maybe japanese tanks have ok K/D but thats only because people play japan as their last nation. If you compare the tanks to its competation stat wise… hell nah they do suffer Japan is basically worst tank nation low - mid tier - please fix (brs, lineups etc.) - #37 by 侍KAMIKAZE侍 moust japanese ww2 tanks deserve at least 0.3 br decrease.

Same as the conversation we had in that thread: the Panzer IVs need to go up in BR. They are under-BR’ed, you cannot reasonably compare the two.

And the other tanks, sherman, T-34s, etc. ? Its not like Panzer IV is only one better in every way. Sure you can put panzer IV higher. But rn they are at same br so I will compare them and the other tanks at its br that are also better in every way. Just like other mentioned japanese tanks in my post. My solution would fix ww2 lineups too as rn there are none.

Short answer: yes

Long answer: yes...

While SWIR is technically a form of thermal imaging, it functions more like our eyes compared to typical military thermal imagers. SWIR is generally less effective for standard thermal imaging tasks as it primarily detects reflected rather than emitted light; it requires extremely high temperatures to directly detect thermal emissions. However, we can still see “heat” if it gets hot enough—think of the sun or a red hot metal. This phenomenon is explained by Wien’s law, which allows us to calculate the temperatures at which different wavelengths are most prominently emitted.

Here I’ve calculated tempratures at which the given wavelengths are emitted the MOST.

LWIR (8 - 14 microns)

  • T ≈ 362.25K = 89.1°C
  • T ≈ 207K = −66.2°C

MWIR (3 - 5 mircrons)

  • T ≈ 966K = 692.85°C
  • T ≈ 579.6K = 306.45°C

SWIR (0.75 - 1 mircons)

  • T ≈ 3864K = 3590.85°C
  • T ≈ 2898K = 2624.85°C

For comparisons sake:

Red light (~0.7 mircons)

  • T ≈ 4140K = 3866.85°C

Note: At these temperatures, the objects would emit their respective wavelengths at peak intensity, which can lead to saturation or “overflow” in an imaging sensor. Importantly, this doesn’t mean that these wavelengths are only visible at the given temperatures; other temperatures can also emit these wavelengths, but they won’t emit them at the same intensity. This is why SWIR is often used in higher temprature industrial operations like furnaces even if the tempratures are below 2000 °C.

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Should it really? Arent those tanks repainted? All japanese finished tanks in front line service had multi color camo / 99% ww2 photos I saw show japanese tanks with multicolor to match their area (1 % of those hard to tell as they after all are black white pics but even if some did not then still the vast majority would use multicolor camo - unlike american tanks for example that 99% of time used single color camo in ww2).

Those are all clearly multi color camo - so that should be base
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Some colored pics


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Thats kinda like saying unpainted german tanks were common on battlefield (or saying its how they were meant to be)

Sad story is. That japan does not even have single of those common multi color camos for free in game. While other countrys have sometimes even multiple multi color free camos or even as base/stock color for some of their tanks (italy, sweden) so why not japan?
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While best japan get just for playing the game is this :
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Question. Can the Type 81 C lock on ASM/AGM/GBU or theoretically can?

This radiosity is almost certainly a product of a proper IR band imager, as stated by another user, MW or SW most likely, not of NIR. paint can certainly show up under a thermogram if they use different materials in the paint scheme, as differing materials can have different emissivity, but more than that, the radiosity of the tires and undercarriage matches what one would expect from a proper thermogram, not from NIR.

The rough, vulcanized rubber of a tire, having a higher emissivity and also subject to rising in temperature through use, would have higher radiosity on the tread and lower radiosity moving into the shoulder and the sidewall. the radiosity of the hubcap area will be dependent upon the material used, but if we are to assume they’re using a low emissivity coating, it being only slightly brighter would line up.

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I have my doubts about it being MWIR. Most comparisons between LWIR and MWIR that I’ve found are very close, with the main difference often being just contrast. While it could be a MWIR sensor, I believe it would show the heated barrel in the videos and pictures after firing, as there is a good amount of overlap in emissions in both the MW and LW ranges at the temperature range we’re expecting.

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Yeah, but we have footage of the Japanese two tone camo camo under an actual thermal imager and the camo pattern, as expect, is not visible.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k8ggsx5de4
https://youtu.be/0-Nige5sayE
https:// youtu.be/0-Nige5sayE

It also does not explain the lack of heat coming from the barrel after firing. At the very least the tip of the barrel, where the muzzle device is, should be glowing white hot.

Yes, it should have been. In fact, it appears that the Japanese tanks were planned to have this tan camouflage from the beginning, as they appeared in the development blog, and some still retain this camouflage in the CDK file.


Sure, there are multiple color camouflages like the late-war three-color scheme that the Chi-He 5th Regiment had, which should be added. However, since the default camouflage is always one color, this khaki camouflage should have been used instead of the boring OD green that every single nation has.

Additionally, it’s important to note that this tan camouflage is not a primer like the German red primer that has been compared to it. The khaki color was an actual camouflage painted on tanks and other vehicles.

The khaki is also part of the late three-color camo.

If you wanted camouflage, you're better off just downloading it as a skin. It's not like Gaijin knows how to make accurate camo anyway.



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I mean yeah they were painted this color before getting to the front (thats why I compared it to the german red primer). But after getting to the front they were suposed to be painted acording to the area of deployment. Also its not really “late-war” thing to have multi color camoflage for japan unlike other nations. As multi color camoflages were used in every front and since the very begining of japanese tank design.

1st japanese tank - multi color :


those are tanks in manchuria :
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tanks in china:

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dutch eas indies :
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malaya:
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iwojima:

Burma:
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manila -philippines:
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also philippines
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I could go on and on but all ww2 pics I find of tanks near combat area /front are clearly multi color camos.

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  1. I suggested khaki as the default scheme because, as I’ve mentioned before, Gaijin typically provides single-color camouflage by default. With few exceptions like Swedish tanks, but to be fair they have even less camouflage options than us. Therefore, if Japanese vehicles are only given a single-color camo by default, it would make sense to provide them with one widely used during that era, such as khaki, instead of OD green.

  2. I’m aware of the various camouflages used by the Japanese, including those from the Sino-Japanese War up to the Pacific Theater. The late-war tricolor camo is just one example that’s brought up due to its status as being one of the better known camouflages; I’m not suggesting it was the only camouflage used by Japan.



As I mentioned, I’ve stopped caring about camouflage and instead use what others have created, which is often more accurate and can even make the vehicle models appear new.

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