This is the key moment that PvP players seem to not really understand.
I can always purchase premium vehicle and premium account that guarantee that I won’t lose SL.
But I will not play sim mode PvP battles. And it looks like not only me.
This game is PVP, you cant be mad at someone for killing you, but you might be when you do a lot of action and not get rewardet for it.
This mode has also PvE part which attracts players who play game to enjoy it, but not to compete with other players.
I already proposed an idea to completely eliminate any PvE content from sim EC, so only true PvP players should stay in the game.
As far as I remember, the current 15 min cycle system was introduced against twink account farmers, not PvE players.
You name them PvE players as well.
and this would probably result in me stopping playing the gamemode.
I like the PvPvE. ASB should never be a pure PvP gamemode, for that, just play ARB
3 Likes
Me too, but it looks like this is the only a solution at this moment.
PvP players do not want to unite and play separate sessions without PvE players.
PvE players do not want to play with PvP players.
I enjoy sim mode only in my missions.
ARB is also PvPvE, but due to markers and 3rd person view this mode is almost pure PvP.
I remember they tried to do RB EC. As far as I remember players started to complain that maps are too big and players turned it in PvP, so they cancel it.
Sim EC at top tier is also almost pure PvP due to radars and advanced missiles.
Idk about you, but escorting bombers (WHO COMMUNICATE AND WORK WITH THE TEAM) and saving them is a big part of the fun for me, as is winning a close match in tickets by keeping the enemy team off of ground-battles while the IL-2/B-25/etc on your team goes to town carpet bombing howitzers to drain the final tickets and secure the victory.
Also. I hate that people call doing the objective “PvE.” Again, I don’t know about you but when you bomb a base you drain tickets from the enemy team. When you bomb tanks and howitzers and SPAA, you drain tickets from the enemy team. When you capture an air superiority point, you drain tickets from the enemy team. When you take down a formation of A.I bombers/attackers/survey plane - you guessed it, you drain tickets from the enemy team! What if you kill an enemy plane? You guessed it - you drain tickets from the enemy team!
What’s common in all these examples? Your actions negatively affect the enemy team. Ergo, your actions are player versus player. It’s no different than playing Nature’s Prophet in Dota 2 and teleporting behind the enemy team to push their towers while they’re busy engaging in a skirmish with your team - it’s ratting and it’s a very valid strategy. Are nature’s prophet, tinker, Lycan and similar “rat” heroes PvE heroes in dota? Would their gameplay be the same in a single-player game? Ask any sensible person and you’ll get a resounding no.
Your insistance in “PvE” fails to consider that maybe sim is a team-based game where you should coordinate with your fighters for escort. I wonder what role the P-51 mustang was made for. Oh! Bomber escort (or rather - “fly in ahead of the bombers and clear the air because it turns out sticking to your bombers means the enemy can take them down even if they are forced down themselves.”)
Outside of RB tourists and marketplace grinders during event period ruining the game mode, I regularly find both bombers, interceptors and fighters alike co-operating in my lobbies and creating emergent teamwork and gameplay and expressing having fun.
4 Likes
You cant say that there will be room just for PVE players and a nother room for PVP players. In this game it about avoiding threaths and destreying the target.
Its not about the fact that you go bomb the base and someone shots you down, it thayer job to shoot you, it about the hole tactik you want to make up and try. This all is good, that learning. But while learning you might die many times. Witch again brings us to the rewarding system, if you die two or more times, your profit is garantied to be a negative number. Just because of the rewarding.
If there is something thay should realy fix or change is the rewarding.
I made may suggestions for chaning the rewarding in sim, but every time thay said to me that it isnt a suggestion to suggest an change of rewarding.
This is something that got me realy mad. It seems like thay just ignore it, or thay are afraid of the amount of players that might support this idea. Who knows?
I can’t comment on WWII planes since I don’t play them at all. My experience is limited to top-tier gameplay.
I can only recall a couple of times when I played in a truly cohesive team.
A few days ago, I played my latest mission for almost 1.5 hours, dogfighting with bots and taking out ground units using C-8KO unguided missiles. And I keep playing this mission over and over again, since it gives me a real enjoyment. This is an experience I can’t get in PvP battles—and one I’ve never had there.
I also encounter a lot of players using assault planes who leave sessions with intense PvP battles.
I can purchase premium to avoid negative numbers.
But I cannot purchase gameplay. If other player has advantage (more experience or better plane/weapon) over me, I do not have a chance against him. So, I cannot get satisfaction from such type of gameplay.
Some people are fine with it and they learn how to defeat other players.
My goal is to play the game, not to be better than other players.
So where should attacker and bomber pilots go, for who Sim EC is the only viable game mode?!?
That is a really good question. IMO ideally they should go in a separate mode based on PvE.
As I understand, there are rumors that Gaijin are planning to introduce new mode for strategic bombers.
If we would have a separate mode for PvE players, current EC mode would be crowded more by PvP players.
I do understand that it is possible to play PvPvE, but my experience tells me that there are many players who would like to focus on PvE only. And those players are mixed with farmers.
In my opinion there should be no such separation.
Bombers / attackers have their job to do, and part of their job is to evade enemy air defense, be than on the ground or in the air, to complete that job. And the fighter’s job is to prevent the enemy attackers/bombers from doing that job. So what we have come to call PvPvE is probably the most realistic situation we are able to get in WT.
We already have an oversimplified game(mode), “dumbing” it down even further is not something that we should push towards, I think.
4 Likes
Well, IMO it works only IRL, since military have proper training, proper cooperation, proper motivation. They do act as a cohesive team.
I do not think we can expect anything like this from a random group of gamers.
PvE in this perspective is more suitable. I watch missions in DCS - even now they are quite immersive. I still believe AI is able to provide maximum performance and immersive gameplay.
Also, I already posted screenshots of teams disbalance, leaving me absolutely no chance to do properly any PvE activity.
Even in fair sessions you barely can expect support from fighter plane.
Not sure what mode you are talking about?
PvE missions can be challenging.
We do have “dumb” PvE tasks in EC. Kill bases, kill units standing on the ground with indication on the map. The reason these tasks are “dumb” is because it is not easy to complete them due to enemy.
And this is the only challenge.
Yes, assumed there is an actual AI an not those (admittedly quite poorly) scripted AI elements we have in WT. Before that is developed way further, that’s not a discussion point for me, I’m afraid.
Sim EC. Well, all game modes are very simplistic in WT, but it’s not intended to be DCS, true.
Not really. You fly there, you drop your stuff, you return.
Note: I don’t say that’s not fun. I’m mostly flying attackers and bombers myself, and enjoy this tremendously.
But I have to say I would enjoy it much less if there weren’t also the enemy players I have to worry about, be on the lookout for and defend against.
And of course there are those aircraft suited for multiple roles, especially relevant in higher tiers.
Also, there’s the possibility for custom missions, so if it’s just for enjoyment of ground pounding, why not use this?
Finally, I fear that the already very much underpopulated game would would not enjoy an influx of new player if it gets separated. What would help here is a modernisation of the objectives in several aspects, and admittedly also a tweak of the rewards (although I myself have no quarrel at all with the current system, but then I am quite “wealthy” SL and RP wise and always play premium anyway, so my view of this is biased).
3 Likes
Well, for me dogfighting even with current bots is quite challenging and interesting.
It depends on mission scenario. Have you tried to play my missions?
For example, in my latest mission you need to protect Su-25 from enemy fighter jets.
If you fly planes with weak radars like Su-27, it is not so easy (at least for me) to do.
Mission takes place in mountains, and bots do not turn on radars, which creates extra challenge in finding them before they kill Su-25 or sneak to you. Plus I designed the mission in a way bots appear from random directions (finally my CDK does not crash because of using variables as before).
In my another mission one of mission steps is to protect ally tanks from suicide trucks that cause tanks explosion when these trucks reach them. Another step of this mission is to kill enemy tanks that look very similar to ally ones. Hence, simple shooting does not work.
Just flying and dropping stuff is not so exciting, I agree.
PvE can be much more than this.
My next mission is going to contain an element of decision when to call for CAS support.
So, you need to destroy AA first and then call for assault planes. The problem is the number and location of AA units is also random, so player is not able to remember their locations to play this mission again more effectively.
And I am not a pro in CDK. People potentially can create much better content than me.
I agree. But IMO some elements are worth to be used to create more immersive gameplay.
2 Likes
Admittedly, I haven’t, no. But the discussion here is about the Sim EC mode, not custom missions. I understood PVE as a game mode as we have now, but without players opposing each other, like Heli PvE.
But: I fully agree, if Sim EC (and other game modes) would employ more interesting missions like the ones you create, hell yeah, that would be some improvement! = )
4 Likes
Sure, I was not planning to discuss my missions here. Just wanted to provide an example of PvE that is something alternative to just dropping stuff.
Thanks, but I am absolutely sure that WT community could offer much more.
My proposal to give GE as a reward for mission creation (as in ThunderShow) was accepted.
I strongly believe Gaijin should use the potential of WT fans.
I am not against PvPvE. I just think current EC is far from ideal to meet the needs of different groups of players.
Well that is kind the point,in real live xou also have to deal with ennemys, this is almost the only fun there.
I agree, it is boring, someplayers eynjoi it becouse thay get SL with no affer, just time. I would make bases with AntiAir missails that would bring some spice into the game. It wouldnt just eliminate “ZOMBERS” but drive new players looking for a chalange.
New taktiks, more action and more players.
I do not think sim EC aligns with the reality.
If assault plane faces many enemy fighter jets it means the operation was poorly planned.
Unless this has changed since I’ve played (I am finally sorting out getting back into it), you’re relatively fine in a strike platform as long as you pay attention to the information you’re presented with and occasionally use your targeting tools to check for air targets. Even my lil harrier was relatively fine at altitude going into the red. Only really became an issue if someone particularly persistent decided to try and hunt it down, on account of the limited speed.
When I played, I was content with engaging enemy air with my ground attacker and I think most folk are fine with that. The primary degradation of it when I put it down was that you could end up getting camped quite easily, which is caused notably by the lack of defenses on airfields, and PvP players generally being tools taking easy airfield kills instead of intercepting along the bounds of territory.
But whoes is this mistake?