Don’t get me wrong. If gaijin releases cool PVE gameplay in form of missions or coop campaigns, I would also like to play them.
I just don’t get the point of a PVE mode in the actual EC.
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I think you misunderstood me. I did not propose to replace EC with PvE mode.
Do I get you right that you propose to remove any PvE activity from EC mode?
That is not what he is saying.
PVE players have fun bombing that might be true, but thay play a game witch is PVPVE so you cant get mad if a fighter takes you down, its only your falt that you got shot down, also I dont know any plane witch would be that much defenceless it couldnt be flown in PVP mach.
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No and no 😄
PVE is part of EC and should be. But also is PVP, so you have to live with it.
I agree that on flat maps it can be annoying to bomb a target because you are exposed as soon as you take off and we need more terrainy maps in higher tiers, no question. E.g. in Afghanistan games I have no issues sneaking to a base. You just can’t expect to fly straight and watch netflix until you arrive at the base.
But I don’t think that a separate PVE only mode would work.
First, you can’t prevent players to shoot at you, even in attackers or bombers. Only solution would be to make you invincible against players and that is just dumb.
Second, if you look at the (non-) effort gaijin put in EC in the last years, you can’t really expect anything fleshed out.
Why should everything be around bombing bases? I do not really understand this point.
PvE is about completing a task, it is about scenario, not dumb dropping stuff on base. It is about immersive gameplay and using game mechanics, not about survival against other players and sneaking to bomb a bases.
I agree. But maybe if we would have interesting mode we would have more players, no?
My guess is everybody are waiting when players start to come in SB mode, and then some changes will happen.
When a player constantly plays game as target for other players, there is a high chance he would start to look for PvE sessions…or quits the mode/game.
All Su-25 (except for premium with radar, maybe). I know players can make air kills with it. I did do it myself.
But I do not think average player will do it effectively.
Also, even for Su-34 you cannot compete effectively with fighter planes, since then you should carry less assault weapon to carry AAMs for air fights.
To summarize, assault planes can do air kills, but their main purpose is to do ground strikes.
For instance, in my mission for assault plane you should do a couple of air kills. But only a couple. You are not supposed to play as fighter whole mission.
In PvP battles you cannot focus on ground strike tasks.
Than learn how to not be one.
Attacker can turn much faster than most of the fighters at the low speed, thay can carry FOX2 missails, when you play Su-25 you got enought slots to take AirToAir missails. Radar isnt anyhow nessery to score kills, you stil got RWR so you always can see if someone is coming to you and you as a attacker can always hide. It might mean to make your distance longer but its nessery for the missen. Just think of your plan when you go for a base, you might not always fly straight to the target. Its just you and your taktic.
How would you see a PVE game?
Everything you will be doing would be droppimg bombs, no strategy no threat just fly there land and fly again.
You would clime to some alt. and than drop.
That’s like saying hide and seek is not an immersive game, as one hides and the other seeks for him. Completing your bombing mission in face of the enemy trying to prevent that is not just dumb dropping stuff on bases can absolutely be imersive and challenging.
Except of course iy you’re really zombing.
Not at all. Again the example hide and seek: Hiding kids get frustrated that the others are seeking him? I don’t think so. Roles can be switched, and in WT everybody can decide if to play for he seekers or the hiders. And, those roles can quickly shift during a match, or even during a sortie.
And again, if dumb zombing is the desired gameplay, well, there’s also custom missions with zero player interactions.
What do you mean “supposed”? If my aircraft is capable of swing roles, why not use this? Even to lure greedy fighters in?
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Here is an example of the mission where you should plan your setup and use different weapon to complete it. No dumb bombs dropping.
Try to play it using Su-25SM3 / Su-27 pair of planes.
Spoiler
PvE should involve targets search, identification and making priorities.
There should be no simple “I see target- I kill target”.
In my another mission you should distinguish between ally and enemy tanks (they look very similar)
Spoiler
Strike planes have also tasks other than simple bases bombing.
I do not see bombing bases as an exciting task even with the necessity to hide from enemies.
I do not think it is a good example. Selecting a place to hide is an important and interesting part of “gameplay”.
Flying a long way before being killed is not an interesting part at all.
I mean, I designed the mission in a way you should not sacrifice strike weapon to bring more AAMs to fight against fighter planes. You should kill a couple of planes just for fun (quite challenging fun, if you play Su-25SM3). The main part is about ground strikes.
My guy, what you are describing is a singleplayer campaign where everything is tailored around the main character / player / you.
It does not work in a multiplayer environment where other players mess up everything, kill your targets or threats and then there is no “mission” left for you. It would end in randomly respawning stuff again.
It really seems that war thunder EC is just not the right game for you.
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My guy, I was answering the question on how I see PvE.
EC PvE for sure should be different than real PvE, since EC mode is mostly about PvP.
Hence, you should not expect interesting and immersive PvE tasks in EC mode.
That is why I propose to create a separate mode at least for assault planes, since sneaking to bomb a base is not an exciting task at all.
It does, if it is multiplayer PvE. Bots are cohesive team and the only way to defeat it is to act as cohesive team as well.
Current EC mode is a total mess in this matter, I agree.
I see you adamantly cling to that take. That’s only your view however.
There’s absolutely zero claim by Gaijin that Sim EC is “mostly about PvP”. What they clearly state however is that it’s not a PvE game mode, and proclaiming this or even trying to enforce this is against the rules.
Tasks and missions could (and should- high time!!!) be improved to offer more variety, depth and immersion, to improve the gameplay and make it interesting, but I don’t see this as “either PvE or PVP” at all, and can be done without having to separate the two aspects.
So instead of what we have now, have an additional game mode exclusively for attackers/bombers, without even the excitement that comes from the challenge of evading the enemy players? How would that make that playstyle more interesting?
And of course there’s the issue of diluting a game mode already not blessed with too many players even further…
And again, one can find this absolutely an exciting task. It’s after all how you play the game that also strongly affects what enjoyment you take out of it - or not, obviously.
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Plus, AI is predictable and as soon as you learn the pattern, you don’t have to think anymore.
Play the same singleplayer mission of a random game 10 times and you will run trough it while doing something else in the meantime.
The same will happen to this pure pve mode.
As soon as the players know how to play it the most effective way (hello YouTube tutorial!), they will just farm the shit out of it like in pve lobbies now.
Yes, there is no such claim, but the reality is that top tier is about PvP. I guess, low tier is different due to not effective weapon and the absence of radars.
I cannot imagine interesting and immersive PvE in PvP battles.
We can discuss it, since this is the part of the current topic.
Do you have any ideas on how to improve PvE tasks? Other than add more modules for bases, which I agree with.
PvE tasks can be intersting, immersive and challenging by themselves.
You mean sneaking to bomb a base? Well, definitely not me. And based on the SB online, not only me.
It depends on AI. Also, now I design my mission with use of random numbers and variables. It makes you play a mission differently each time.
No, if you properly design a mission.
Does anybody know if Gaijin Devs actually read forum suggestions? Is there any actual way to get them to pay attention? EC is an excellent mode which is slowly dying due to lack of attention and improvements. Convoys go underground, low clouds, obsolete targets for modern armament, almost no way to hide from top tier attackers on high BRs. How to make Gaijin do something with it instead of printing new prem vehicles each update?
They are not actively working on SIM, so why should they read anything?
I still think all devs that could work on SIM are busy with getting aces of thunder done and released.
Maybe we will see some movement after that, as I can imagine that many aces players will have a look on SIM for modern jets.
But don’t expect anything significant this year
Players will always find the path of least resistance.
This is a grind game after all.
And designing a mission for one player is something different than for many players.
It will be impossible for one or simple steamrolling for 5 players.
And, main point: Gaijin will never put so much effort (=money) in such a unpopular game mode.
We should be glad if they fix the existing shit.
Maybe, but it is much harder to do it in PvE since you cannot agree with AI.
Yes, for sure, but still possible.
I have already proposed to give reward for creating missions. WT fans have a lot of potential, in my opinion.
I would purchase good PvE campaigns like in DCS.
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That’s a point I totally agree with 👍
Many Sim players are dedicated and could provide really valuable input or mods.
But I think not even the management for this is worth it for our small community.
SIM is a little hungry creature that exists somewhere in the dark periphery and feeds on some crumbles falling down from RB. It’s the only game mode worth playing in my opinion, but the majority of the playerbase thinks different and sees it as some weird nerd mode.
As long as this is the case, things will not change.
That’s why my only realistic hope is that they fix at least the biggest issues in EC and don’t mess it up even more.
The thing is, each one of us can point on bugs in sim and devs still don’t fix them. They even state that low clouds are fixed in air missions, and I am happy to declare that our airfields are still covered by massive clouds even on the flattest maps like Sinai
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