Maybe for BVR and vietnam missile.
For gunfighters,
A fighter has to get within ~300-500 meters of an enemy who might reverse/trap them, or their wingman can take them out as they prepare to shoot.
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But they can still wait on their side of map, defending against bombers/strike aircraft if they wanted to. They dont need to push to the other side of the map.
Then you get zero rewards, and attacking bombers/attackers means either risking blue-on-blue or getting close enough to confirm hostile - a range well within the bombers’ turret range while the bomber knows from kilometers out you were a hostile due to how auto-slew IFFs enemies even if they’re a tiny black speck behind a cloud.
So whatever reward a fighter can obtain always comes with risk of death or being crippled unless you’re significantly better than the opposition and are just sealclubbing/statpadding.
Another thing is that the UA cycle perfectly lines up with ground-pounding.
You take off, arrive to site ~7-9 minutes. Drop. RTB and enter landing pattern ~13 minutes and by the time you touch down, your UA cycle popped off and you get full reward. You always know how long it takes to drop ordnance and the objectives (Outside of arrows) are ever present on the minimap so there’s very little variance and thus risk of UA cycle “desyncing” with RTB cycle - outside of interception of course.
Whereas with a fighter you can be forced to RTB from an early dogfight (either due to damage or ammo), land and rearm before the first 15 minute cycle passes. Your options then are to loiter afk around the runway to wait for the rewards to pop-up and land again or take off and risk your next sortie taking ~20 minutes and thus miss out on the first cycle’s 20% landing bonus. I’ve lost quite a few landing bonuses not to dying, but simply RTBing too early for the first UA cycle to pop off and then staying in the air for “too long” due to air superiority points dragging it out or other “oh, I got sth to do” too late into my second UA cycle.
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Air Sim EC definitely needs new maps.
There is the thing that playing as a fighter or anything agains players, puts you in so big risk that its not worth the possible profit. You would always radder bomb a base and wait at the airfield than risk of death.
No plane is defence less, even F117 isnt.
Problem is that, playing sim is too big risk of SL lost than any other gamemod is.
And the Airdefence, I played F8E Crusider, navy airplane, so I took off from the carrier, or I tryed. There were two ennemy planes waiting for me, sooner than I got some speed IR missail got me. Carrier of a blue side doesnt do anything, it just exists.
This is true, but you play to fight and to have fun, not to be afraid of loseing SL. Its the rewarding that makes players play just less. Today it looks like: you get some bomb, bomb a base, and wait next 10mins at the airfield and than a again. So in the end every one is flying low to avoid everting and spend most of the time on the ground.
For me, it seems wrong.
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This is the key moment that PvP players seem to not really understand.
I can always purchase premium vehicle and premium account that guarantee that I won’t lose SL.
But I will not play sim mode PvP battles. And it looks like not only me.
This game is PVP, you cant be mad at someone for killing you, but you might be when you do a lot of action and not get rewardet for it.
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This mode has also PvE part which attracts players who play game to enjoy it, but not to compete with other players.
I already proposed an idea to completely eliminate any PvE content from sim EC, so only true PvP players should stay in the game.
As far as I remember, the current 15 min cycle system was introduced against twink account farmers, not PvE players.
You name them PvE players as well.
and this would probably result in me stopping playing the gamemode.
I like the PvPvE. ASB should never be a pure PvP gamemode, for that, just play ARB
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Me too, but it looks like this is the only a solution at this moment.
PvP players do not want to unite and play separate sessions without PvE players.
PvE players do not want to play with PvP players.
I enjoy sim mode only in my missions.
ARB is also PvPvE, but due to markers and 3rd person view this mode is almost pure PvP.
I remember they tried to do RB EC. As far as I remember players started to complain that maps are too big and players turned it in PvP, so they cancel it.
Sim EC at top tier is also almost pure PvP due to radars and advanced missiles.
Idk about you, but escorting bombers (WHO COMMUNICATE AND WORK WITH THE TEAM) and saving them is a big part of the fun for me, as is winning a close match in tickets by keeping the enemy team off of ground-battles while the IL-2/B-25/etc on your team goes to town carpet bombing howitzers to drain the final tickets and secure the victory.
Also. I hate that people call doing the objective “PvE.” Again, I don’t know about you but when you bomb a base you drain tickets from the enemy team. When you bomb tanks and howitzers and SPAA, you drain tickets from the enemy team. When you capture an air superiority point, you drain tickets from the enemy team. When you take down a formation of A.I bombers/attackers/survey plane - you guessed it, you drain tickets from the enemy team! What if you kill an enemy plane? You guessed it - you drain tickets from the enemy team!
What’s common in all these examples? Your actions negatively affect the enemy team. Ergo, your actions are player versus player. It’s no different than playing Nature’s Prophet in Dota 2 and teleporting behind the enemy team to push their towers while they’re busy engaging in a skirmish with your team - it’s ratting and it’s a very valid strategy. Are nature’s prophet, tinker, Lycan and similar “rat” heroes PvE heroes in dota? Would their gameplay be the same in a single-player game? Ask any sensible person and you’ll get a resounding no.
Your insistance in “PvE” fails to consider that maybe sim is a team-based game where you should coordinate with your fighters for escort. I wonder what role the P-51 mustang was made for. Oh! Bomber escort (or rather - “fly in ahead of the bombers and clear the air because it turns out sticking to your bombers means the enemy can take them down even if they are forced down themselves.”)
Outside of RB tourists and marketplace grinders during event period ruining the game mode, I regularly find both bombers, interceptors and fighters alike co-operating in my lobbies and creating emergent teamwork and gameplay and expressing having fun.
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You cant say that there will be room just for PVE players and a nother room for PVP players. In this game it about avoiding threaths and destreying the target.
Its not about the fact that you go bomb the base and someone shots you down, it thayer job to shoot you, it about the hole tactik you want to make up and try. This all is good, that learning. But while learning you might die many times. Witch again brings us to the rewarding system, if you die two or more times, your profit is garantied to be a negative number. Just because of the rewarding.
If there is something thay should realy fix or change is the rewarding.
I made may suggestions for chaning the rewarding in sim, but every time thay said to me that it isnt a suggestion to suggest an change of rewarding.
This is something that got me realy mad. It seems like thay just ignore it, or thay are afraid of the amount of players that might support this idea. Who knows?
I can’t comment on WWII planes since I don’t play them at all. My experience is limited to top-tier gameplay.
I can only recall a couple of times when I played in a truly cohesive team.
A few days ago, I played my latest mission for almost 1.5 hours, dogfighting with bots and taking out ground units using C-8KO unguided missiles. And I keep playing this mission over and over again, since it gives me a real enjoyment. This is an experience I can’t get in PvP battles—and one I’ve never had there.
I also encounter a lot of players using assault planes who leave sessions with intense PvP battles.
I can purchase premium to avoid negative numbers.
But I cannot purchase gameplay. If other player has advantage (more experience or better plane/weapon) over me, I do not have a chance against him. So, I cannot get satisfaction from such type of gameplay.
Some people are fine with it and they learn how to defeat other players.
My goal is to play the game, not to be better than other players.
So where should attacker and bomber pilots go, for who Sim EC is the only viable game mode?!?
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That is a really good question. IMO ideally they should go in a separate mode based on PvE.
As I understand, there are rumors that Gaijin are planning to introduce new mode for strategic bombers.
If we would have a separate mode for PvE players, current EC mode would be crowded more by PvP players.
I do understand that it is possible to play PvPvE, but my experience tells me that there are many players who would like to focus on PvE only. And those players are mixed with farmers.
In my opinion there should be no such separation.
Bombers / attackers have their job to do, and part of their job is to evade enemy air defense, be than on the ground or in the air, to complete that job. And the fighter’s job is to prevent the enemy attackers/bombers from doing that job. So what we have come to call PvPvE is probably the most realistic situation we are able to get in WT.
We already have an oversimplified game(mode), “dumbing” it down even further is not something that we should push towards, I think.
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Well, IMO it works only IRL, since military have proper training, proper cooperation, proper motivation. They do act as a cohesive team.
I do not think we can expect anything like this from a random group of gamers.
PvE in this perspective is more suitable. I watch missions in DCS - even now they are quite immersive. I still believe AI is able to provide maximum performance and immersive gameplay.
Also, I already posted screenshots of teams disbalance, leaving me absolutely no chance to do properly any PvE activity.
Even in fair sessions you barely can expect support from fighter plane.
Not sure what mode you are talking about?
PvE missions can be challenging.
We do have “dumb” PvE tasks in EC. Kill bases, kill units standing on the ground with indication on the map. The reason these tasks are “dumb” is because it is not easy to complete them due to enemy.
And this is the only challenge.
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Yes, assumed there is an actual AI an not those (admittedly quite poorly) scripted AI elements we have in WT. Before that is developed way further, that’s not a discussion point for me, I’m afraid.
Sim EC. Well, all game modes are very simplistic in WT, but it’s not intended to be DCS, true.
Not really. You fly there, you drop your stuff, you return.
Note: I don’t say that’s not fun. I’m mostly flying attackers and bombers myself, and enjoy this tremendously.
But I have to say I would enjoy it much less if there weren’t also the enemy players I have to worry about, be on the lookout for and defend against.
And of course there are those aircraft suited for multiple roles, especially relevant in higher tiers.
Also, there’s the possibility for custom missions, so if it’s just for enjoyment of ground pounding, why not use this?
Finally, I fear that the already very much underpopulated game would would not enjoy an influx of new player if it gets separated. What would help here is a modernisation of the objectives in several aspects, and admittedly also a tweak of the rewards (although I myself have no quarrel at all with the current system, but then I am quite “wealthy” SL and RP wise and always play premium anyway, so my view of this is biased).
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Well, for me dogfighting even with current bots is quite challenging and interesting.
It depends on mission scenario. Have you tried to play my missions?
For example, in my latest mission you need to protect Su-25 from enemy fighter jets.
If you fly planes with weak radars like Su-27, it is not so easy (at least for me) to do.
Mission takes place in mountains, and bots do not turn on radars, which creates extra challenge in finding them before they kill Su-25 or sneak to you. Plus I designed the mission in a way bots appear from random directions (finally my CDK does not crash because of using variables as before).
In my another mission one of mission steps is to protect ally tanks from suicide trucks that cause tanks explosion when these trucks reach them. Another step of this mission is to kill enemy tanks that look very similar to ally ones. Hence, simple shooting does not work.
Just flying and dropping stuff is not so exciting, I agree.
PvE can be much more than this.
My next mission is going to contain an element of decision when to call for CAS support.
So, you need to destroy AA first and then call for assault planes. The problem is the number and location of AA units is also random, so player is not able to remember their locations to play this mission again more effectively.
And I am not a pro in CDK. People potentially can create much better content than me.
I agree. But IMO some elements are worth to be used to create more immersive gameplay.
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