Gaijin, Stop blanket nerfing an entire game mode - This is just a lazy approach and does not address the cause of the nerf

[RunaDacino]

No.

I am a sim player (who does play ARB for rewards and battlepass) and sim is not the “proper way” to play.

I will say back in 2015ish, earthunder did present air sim as its pinnacle of offerings but it kind of fell off. 2013-15 forum posts are quite interesting in people even wanting mouse aim gone from historical battles.

Anyway.

People should play the mode they want. They should be encouraged to experiment and try other modes out. However they should not be forced to keep playing modes they do not enjoy (if sim had decent rewards and affordable spawn costs, id likely spade my fighters in it over arb.)

Anyhow.

Arcade air warthunder is its own game. If you move on to air realistic, it is going to be a very very different game. It used to be much more different in the past when objective design and airfield placement was smarter and matches could last for longer, and i feel the idea of pushing arcade players into arb has contributed to its arcadification.

If you push aab/arb players into sim not because of the playstyle (you enjoy slow paced, heavily positioning based air to air combat and purposeful groundstriking and bombing gameplay and semi-historical lobbies and flying without instructor and in a cockpit)… but because you shame them for playing “inferior” game modes and demand they move on to playing sim…

Do you know what will happen? People will conplain about the playstyle. People will conplain about having to compensate for prop planes rolling and yawing and needing to be fought. People will complain about distances flown and gunnery difficulty. People will conplain about markers.

We will get the same complaints that led to the arcadification of ARB and will lead to the ARBification of air sim.

You should ideally only play a mode if it appeals to you. Not because of misplaced pride or being forced.

[RunaDacino]

It is also much harder to not put yourself into a flatspin than in arb.

As for hunting bots - sure, there are a.i planes and bombers but there are fighter pilots as well. I did notice an uptick of new players give how nobody seems to use communication methods at certain times making me dive on a bf109 only to see it is a captured friendly despite repeated pings…

However there are fighter pilots whose names you recognize and dread if they are on the enemy team. Fighter pilots who you know that unless you can catch them in a BnZ or while they are shooting your wingman - they will reverse on you and rip your wings off.

Kills per flyout i also feel is not exactly representative. You can get long periods of patrolling when no objectices spawn without finding anyone. Then you get periods of insanity where the tickets are low and there is a very dedicate il-8 on the enemy team destroying frontline objectives. Your team goes to intercept. Enemy team goes to intercept your interception. Cue the next 15-30 minutes turning into a bloodbath of fighters trying their best to get the win.

Surely in no universe would you consider trying to keep enemies of your six without third person view in such an encounter easier than in ARB. Surely in no universe would you consider getting your guns on target long enough for a disabling shot against an evasively target easier with arb over trying to use an early ww2 gunsight (not that late gyro sights help a lot with a maneuvering enemy, they do help with bnz at least).

As for doing better in sim versus arb…

Plane’s strength: high speed, high dive controllability.

Where can you exploit such a plane more effectively? The game mode that lasts 90 minutes and allows you to boom, pitchback for another pass and then extend/climb away to try again a few minutes later…

Or the game mode where doing that means you end up fighting 1-3 vs 6-10 with ticket bleed losing you the game even as you slowly try and pick off enemies with disciplined bnz? I have lost even 5+ kill games before to ticket bleed and overwhelming numbers.

(That bring up another difference - sim you are likely fighting 1vs1 or 2vs1 or maybe 3v3. Air rb you are trying to get kills in a 16v16 furball with very limited time.)

Final point to doing better in sim over arb: you have no markers and can do sneak attacks more effectively, and you started playing sim because you got frustrated in arb and have improved since playing arb (and some of what you learned do not transfer as well back as youd expect. Like gunnery. Only opening fire on enemies from 300 meters away is suicidal in arb, while in sim 300 meters is just about ideal with most gunsights).

Idk if missile jets are different. Cannot comment on them.

[PercussionCap]

@UnknownDistance

Most sim “pilots” are getting less than .2 kills per fly-out.

@UnknownDistance

Look at the win rate distribution. The largest portion of players are winning above 60 percent of their sim games over a month long period.

Because Sim playerbase has dropped off hard over the years due to repeated economy nerfs brought on by players from other gamemodes abusing it for short term gain.
Thus I believe most regular players are now base bombers, and will win on tickets most of the time - I got a friend with a really good winrate in the F-105D exactly because of this, but because Service Record doesn’t show bombing stats it’s easy to think he doesn’t contribute much.

@UnknownDistance

Air SB is basically a mickey mouse playhouse if you understand how it works and just abuse the lobby system and BR rotation

I see it the other way around, rotating BRs allows many more aircraft to truly shine when there’s no impending full uptiers with other aircraft that outclass you in everything.

[PercussionCap]

@CRO_Kola124

Try to provoke “skilled” farming RB players to dogfight and start counting how many flat spins they make every single time they try to dogfight.

Funny story on that, during the Irancat event I had a premium F-4EJ try to missile my own F-4EJ, purely because I was shooting down a shitload of zombers. Dodged his 7E from the side without chaff, turned in, got behind him and put a 20mm burst straight into him while he was pulling to avoid the ground.

Wish I had recorded it.

[Ion_Protogen]

@RunaDacino

Plane’s strength: high speed, high dive controllability.

Where can you exploit such a plane more effectively? The game mode that lasts 90 minutes and allows you to boom, pitchback for another pass and then extend/climb away to try again a few minutes later…

Or the game mode where doing that means you end up fighting 1-3 vs 6-10 with ticket bleed losing you the game even as you slowly try and pick off enemies with disciplined bnz? I have lost even 5+ kill games before to ticket bleed and overwhelming numbers.

I just flew out an Me-262 in sim, and I was surprised for how decent it felt. I was able to effectively use my advantages better compared to what I can do in RB. The high speed and the rocket booster allowed me to climb away from enemy Meteors and Vampires quite easily. Meanwhile, it isn’t the best in RB due to its poor climbrate (without the booster), and it’s poor manoeuvrability and acceleration.

[UnknownDistance]

@RunaDacino

It is also much harder to not put yourself into a flatspin than in arb.

It really isn’t that hard.

@RunaDacino

As for hunting bots - sure, there are a.i planes and bombers but there are fighter pilots as well. I did notice an uptick of new players give how nobody seems to use communication methods at certain times making me dive on a bf109 only to see it is a captured friendly despite repeated pings…

Bot kills count for kills to death stats in the plane cards. Also there are players that go out of their way to farm named-bots or player-created bot accounts in order to inflate their stats and earnings.

@RunaDacino

However there are fighter pilots whose names you recognize and dread if they are on the enemy team. Fighter pilots who you know that unless you can catch them in a BnZ or while they are shooting your wingman - they will reverse on you and rip your wings off.

For every good player that people dread…there are 2 more that are also “good” and leave the game after 2 deaths in order to preserve their kill to death ratio.

@RunaDacino

Kills per flyout i also feel is not exactly representative. You can get long periods of patrolling when no objectices spawn without finding anyone. Then you get periods of insanity where the tickets are low and there is a very dedicate il-8 on the enemy team destroying frontline objectives. Your team goes to intercept. Enemy team goes to intercept your interception. Cue the next 15-30 minutes turning into a bloodbath of fighters trying their best to get the win.

Kills per flyout is probably the best indicator of skill that we have in Air SB because all of the other metrics are extremely easy to skew with AI or just cherry picking lobbies.

@RunaDacino

Surely in no universe would you consider trying to keep enemies of your six without third person view in such an encounter easier than in ARB. Surely in no universe would you consider getting your guns on target long enough for a disabling shot against an evasively target easier with arb over trying to use an early ww2 gunsight (not that late gyro sights help a lot with a maneuvering enemy, they do help with bnz at least).

Positioning and timing has an actual impact on the outcomes of Air RB games. Air SB you can spend the whole game sitting above everyone and playing extremely safe and it will not have a negative impact on the outcome of the match.

@RunaDacino

As for doing better in sim versus arb…

Plane’s strength: high speed, high dive controllability.

Where can you exploit such a plane more effectively? The game mode that lasts 90 minutes and allows you to boom, pitchback for another pass and then extend/climb away to try again a few minutes later…

Or the game mode where doing that means you end up fighting 1-3 vs 6-10 with ticket bleed losing you the game even as you slowly try and pick off enemies with disciplined bnz? I have lost even 5+ kill games before to ticket bleed and overwhelming numbers.

(That bring up another difference - sim you are likely fighting 1vs1 or 2vs1 or maybe 3v3. Air rb you are trying to get kills in a 16v16 furball with very limited time.)

This is an argument in favor of the point that Air RB is harder.
In Air RB you have a limited amount of time to perform and the longer you wait to do something…the more likely that you have no game impact. In Air SB…you can just fly around and it will not make a difference.

@RunaDacino

Final point to doing better in sim over arb: you have no markers and can do sneak attacks more effectively, and you started playing sim because you got frustrated in arb and have improved since playing arb (and some of what you learned do not transfer as well back as youd expect. Like gunnery. Only opening fire on enemies from 300 meters away is suicidal in arb, while in sim 300 meters is just about ideal with most gunsights).

I started playing sim because I became tired of Air RB players and airfield camping. Unfortunately…if you play Air SB for long enough…you will see a lot of the same behavior.

The whole gun thing cuts both ways. If you fly in front of someone at 500m in Air RB…you are setting them up for an easy shot. If you do the same in Air SB…most players are just going to miss.

@PercussionCap

Because Sim playerbase has dropped off hard over the years due to repeated economy nerfs brought on by players from other gamemodes abusing it for short term gain.
Thus I believe most regular players are now base bombers, and will win on tickets most of the time - I got a friend with a really good winrate in the F-105D exactly because of this, but because Service Record doesn’t show bombing stats it’s easy to think he doesn’t contribute much.

My experience has been that most players do not like playing the game when it is unbalanced.

@PercussionCap

I see it the other way around, rotating BRs allows many more aircraft to truly shine when there’s no impending full uptiers with other aircraft that outclass you in everything.

Rotating BRs have their own flaws. For instance today has an 8.0 - 9.0 bracket…guess what plane gets to shine today? The Ariete. Guess what other planes shine next to the Ariete at 9.0? None of them. And it’s not just the Ariete…you can find a select few planes at the top of every BR bracket that standout as meta defining.

[RunaDacino]

@UnknownDistance

This is an argument in favor of the point that Air RB is harder.
In Air RB you have a limited amount of time to perform and the longer you wait to do something…the more likely that you have no game impact. In Air SB…you can just fly around and it will not make a difference.

It’s harder for some planes, easier for others.

It’s probably most prevalent for the jug that really doesn’t want to get bogged down.

I see jugs flown very effectively in sim, while in ARB they’re the first ones to die.

Cannon mustang feels the same. With the cannon mustang, I dive in and maybe do a pitchback and GTFO. You lose the game doing that in air RB. You can get 3 kills in 1 life contesting an objective in sim doing that.

It’s not fun playing planes in ARB whose entire premise is to fly in fast, make a pass or 2 then disengage until you reset your advantage.

I’ve just had a downtier in ARB flying the F-84B. The plane that every guide describes as epitome of that fighting philosophy (keep your speed over 800, don’t turn-fight props, disengage and rebuild speed if you go below 600). The game ended on ticket loss as I was about to kill a prop I managed to stall out. The game was a measly 11 minutes.

As for players missing - that’s realistic for WW2 gunsights. It wasn’t until gyro sights of late warbirds and radar-guided vertical drop that people could reliably get shots to land a kilometer out or more. German aces even recommended only shooting at low-aspect when the enemy fills your canopy with their wings.

Edit:

Found the quotes from Shaw’s book on aerial combat gunnery section

[_Reyman]

Dude. Plz… I hardly played RB… I wanted to play sim. and trust me… I died alot at the begining.

Could u pls show how many hour I have in RB and than how many I have in Sim?

And whats about this stats? I know that I´m not verry good at this game. But I don´t care. I love flying planes. And I like the competition.

@UnknownDistance

And for what it’s worth…I could probably beat you in your own game mode with your most played plane.

Ok. let´s do it.

@UnknownDistance

As someone who plays both game modes…Air RB is harder to be consistently good at. Air SB is basically a mickey mouse playhouse if you understand how it works and just abuse the lobby system and BR rotation.

… ok. you are out…

[UnknownDistance]

@___Reyman_

Ok. let´s do it.

Okay I’ll log in and set it up. 109 F4 fine?

[_Reyman]

I never saied someone is forced to play sim.

I just saied the rewards are good enough for Arcade and what Arcade is made for.

What I do not understd is players like him, with a ton of experience farming new players in Arcade.
And that is what he is doing. Farming easy kills. And he want to have more rewards for it.

NO… JUST NO!!!

[ZendikarHaven]

@___Reyman_

Farming easy kills. And he want to have more rewards for it.

No? Jesus christ, you clearly have not played AB that much. AB isnt just easy kills- if you arent hyper-aware the furball will rip you apart, no matter how good a pilot you are.

Sure, you will definitely get the jump on one or two newer players flying low, but then you will get jumped by other players that climbed, and against them you cant do much given their energy advantage.

Arcade is all action, all the time, and at many times can be harder then RB, especially at top tier. Just because us AB players dont give a shit about realism and instead play for fun, doesnt mean that y’all get to look down on us.

RB/AB air rewards should (Imo) be roughly equal in rp/hr, with sim being slightly higher for obvious reasons.

[_Reyman]

Nice 10-0 win for you.

EDIT:
But I expected that. Coz you play this game since 2014. And you are a Sim player. And you barley played Arcade. 33 hours of total Playtime in Arcade.

You did it how it´s ment to do.
You enter the game in Arcade and as quick as possible you move on.

[NestleKitkat]

You mean teamkill?

[PercussionCap]

Yes, he deserved it for teamkilling me earlier AND trying to do it again.

[Mora]

UnknownDistance say again? Why should he be “good” in RB? And if he plays sim, then he likely plays it from cockpit/virtual cockpit POV with HOTAS and full real controls (like I do). He’s giving you huge advantage in gunnery and situational awareness. Why would you ever go checking on someone’s stats anyway to win an argument? But hey, since you know how to do it pls check mine and give me your opinion of them?

[UnknownDistance]

The fact that you can’t follow the conversation or are asking me to check your stats means that you are probably bad.

[bananomet]

@Skylab246

the 15min 600 point cap is also ridiculous

I played F-15C yesterday for 2 hours straight. Best player out of both teams. More kills than my entire team combined and at the end even started bombing bases to make sure we win. Result? Something I can do literally within 10 minutes playing the Turm III + G.91 R4 combo in GRB. This is with premium account mind you.

Even if I didn´t TK that one guy and didn´t lose a single vehicle (which is impossible cus you need to often play risky to get kills) I would still only get 300k SL. That is laughable for 2 hours of playtime with prem acc.

Note that without the win bonus, I would only get 100k SL LMAO!!! That means all the enemy players actually lost SL if they didn´t have a premium account.

These “rewards” in ASB are complete whack and oftentimes you have to play something else just to earn enough SL to be able to play SIM.

“Useless action” mechanic combined with that score event nerf, Gaijin should be ashamed of themselves. This is not how you incentivize people to play SIM. Maybe that´s the goal… to funnel all players into arcade and arcade 2.0 with extra steps.

My suggestion to Gaijin is to stop punishing entire community for actions of BOTs and perhaps come up with solutions that will hurt only the BOT players and not everyone. Afterall, we play the game most of the time, BOTs only during events.

[RunaDacino]

@bananomet

Maybe that´s the goal

Funniest part is that in trailers, they seem to hype sim mode more than anything (showcasing detailed cockpits, cockpit view dogfights and all that).

[Mora]

I replied to a ridiculous comment you made. If it’s no longer relevant, by all means delete it. Why are you so obsessed by anyones “skill” anyway?

[Mora]

You have about 10 respawns and a friendly kill there. Considering that I wouldn’t complain too much with that result. And I do agree that the rewards are bad.