Gaijin,before carefully evaluating the vehicles, pls stop using vehicle efficiency to value the BR

Game Discussion General Discussion
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21

The Project 56 might be down to botters skewing the stats a bit be it the TT one or Project 56PLO although it could also just be great players using it extensively as it’s a powerful ship coupled with the Project 41, Of course this BR increase does help the other Project 56K out by having it’s brethren alongside it.

On the other hand they could increase all other powerhouse 5.0 destroyers as well but yes the current BR adjustments suck as usual for there’s so many ships that should be raised or lowered yet never receive such changes so you’re definitely right them going by the current system is a terrible design for there is way to much compression thank to this.

22

Char 25t going to 8.0 doesn’t surprise me as someone that’s been using it.
I’ve been playing 7.7 France a lot lately.
Non-meta players are doing well in them, and skilled players are doing FAR better in them than their other lineups.
Clearly at least some of 7.7 France is over-performing.

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And those factors are?

24

Yeah but 90% of players I killed in it were trying to out turn me. And some of them even in Thunderbolts…

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That is actually why they keep going up. The meta is turn fighting rn. Most players just try to turn fight whatever they are fighting, no matter what.

This is why turn fighters are going up while energy fighters are trending down.

3 Likes
26

I am: Specific player performance between vehicles can indicate power of that vehicle when direct analysis fails.
Take for example Char 25t. Its analogues are Object 906, ZTS63, IKV-91, and AMX-13-90.
They’re all surprisingly different from each other despite being similar platforms.
906 and Char 25t both have extremely potent APCBC rounds.
The rest use HEATFS to do their penetration.
Two have laser range finders.
Char & 906 have speed.
Char and 13-90 have slightly more armor.
Etc.
Hard to compare, and when player performance is calculated, you can get an 8.0 char 25t cause it turns out 7.7 was slightly too low for it.

27

I don’t understand what point you are making here.

My point if I am not clear is this. eg The UK Comet was 5.3 for at least two whole years I have been playing (must be 3 now) I Finally made a nice 5.3 line up with a 5.3 premium bought to fit and with a couple of 4.7. I had really struggled like many to get a good line up with UK and be in a happy place with it. Just about did it at 5.3

Some two years pass and Gaijin jack the Comet up to 5.7 and ruin the whole thing. The tank didn’t become any better, the armour didn’t suddenly get thicker or the gun more powerful, it was what it always was but now the Gaijin God says it must go to 5.7 and f**k everybody who has an issue.

So I stopped playing the Comet, removed it from the line up, stopped playing UK pretty much and went to elsewhere. Then guess what after about a year Gaijin have to drop the Comet back to 5.3, maybe because everybody did what I had to do.

What the hell was the point of that? Why bother to even do this? What did it bring to the game other than throw players into disarray? The Comet didn’t physically change when it went up or down, same tank.

This is the issue, even more prominent if you play Italy or France, you struggle to even make a line up and as for China and Japan …well…

So that is my point, it is simple common sense or lack of it as far as I can see.
New vehicle ,different story, yes, we need to let it find its place, I get that.

Moving 5.7 Germany to 6BR after so many years is silly and I just don’t like playing 7BR so even a small change killed my beloved German 5.7 line up. Jadgpanther is even worse at 6.3- facing 7.3 BR a place I don’t want to be.

A number of players do like the WW2 experience and don’t want to be forced to face non WW2 weaponry at 7BR ,5.7 or even 6 at a push gave them a safety barrier, now it gone.
Gaijn could move and appease both parties I think but as usual it won’t.

I just ask that Gaijin stop the practice of shifting BR just because players are using a vehicle more because maybe they saw a YouTube video or something.

Leaving BR alone is just one way for War Thunder to settle down and be stable so new players can get a foothold in the game.

Sorry for the ramble, fair play if you read it all:)

28

Well, you have myself, my squadron, and everyone we’ve influenced to play 7.7 France to blame.
Cause EBR really do be a slightly too powerful for 7.7 IMO. 8.0 it’ll be better off.
I can’t speak for Batchat as much, though 8.0 that should still suffice.

So yeah… I dunno.
When Comet became 5.7 I just ran it with Cent Mk1 which I still do despite it being 5.3 again.
That’s the thing with all the BRs, everything is subject to change if a previous BR was a mistake.
I remember when PT-76-57 came out at 7.0/7.3, boy oh boy that mistake was corrected fast. It was also the first of its kind too.
EBR came in at a low BR also being a first of its kind.
Gaijin is really good at underestimating light vehicle capabilities.

29

Not sure I do :)

Well at the time I had no desire to do UK at 6BR and face 7BR
Now I have gotten a Centurion one and a 6BR line up and yeah its not too bad.

New vehicles do take time to show their effects I get that. The SAV at 3.7 Sweden is fun if you have it and a game killer of you don’t .So I imagine that will move soon. At least there are other options at 3.7 Sweden.

I reached a point where I was considering quitting the game entirely, but I discovered the Breda 501 and it was at 4BR I think then, so much fun that I stayed in the game, then they jacked it to 4.7 now, I think.

So my question there might be is it a problem to have vehicle a touch on the op side ,is it a crime to have a recognized good vehicle in the game or are we compelled to make them all as average as possible? I think novice players need a helping hand sometimes, yes they may fall foul of a good vehicle but at least they can get it at some point.
I actually still get hammered occasionally by premiums I can never buy but I can take it as annoying as it can be.

30

Yeah, but who’s fault is that? We should all just throw ourselves in front of a Type 60 ATM and never kill it until it gets enough BR increases to reach top tier.
Statistics shouldn’t be blindly followed.

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Didn’t I already mention a number of them?

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The entire japanese tree suffers from this due to how good japanese players are, having to use 200% of their brain to do well

33

Most of these changes are what you get when you simply look at stats but cannot understand them.
Many of these vehicles will keep increasing in BR simply because their flight model is not as broken as the rest and are used by very good players that know how to be effective in them. These players will keep using them and affecting their stats while average players will tend to stop using them as their BR increases.

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34

Well, you simply cannot “lock” a vehicle’s BR after any amount of time for the simple fact . . . they keep adding new vehicles. And any time a “BR Range” gets a new addition like that, the entire dynamic of that spread will change. Sometimes just a little, sometimes a lot . . . and that’s not even mentioning wholesale moves of vehicles like they have done in tanks to supposedly widen the gap between WW II & Cold War vehicles(which kinda doesn’t work when you turn around and add several more Cold War vehicles at even lower BR’s than the ones you just moved! . . ha!). Point being, it’s just not practical to lock anything BR-wise. I would be more in favor of having a few minor BR changes during the year, for vehicles that are clearly mismarked, and then an “Annual” BR adjustment of the game, where needed. With enough advance notice/discussion to make it more “acceptable” to all concerned. More time to sort more data, see trends and make adjustments for all the newer vehicles that were added as I mentioned earlier. But that’s just a thought I had recently.

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35

Uptiering and matchmaking is same thing and its already considered.
Not sure how nation affect vehicles performance and why it should affect its BR.
Lineups doesnt affect single vehicles but vehicle’s BR range because players can spawn more times.
Maps corelate with vehicle effeciency. If you keep only city maps vehicles like M56 will go down in BR because they suck in CQB.

Idk dude…

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Its players fault because after 10 years they still dont understand that you dont turn fight with Zero.

37

How is “efficiency” even calculated?

38

Uptiering and matchmaking is same thing and its already considered.

It’s not the same thing, playing with France at 7.7 is entirely different than playing with Germany at 7.7.

Lineups doesnt affect single vehicles but vehicle’s BR range because players can spawn more times.

Lineups affect winrates, affect the ability to respond to a situation, affect performance.

It also affects single vehicles by offering alternatives to spawn, if vehicle A is good at long range and bad at short range but spawn in a short range map, it’s going to perform poorly.
If I have a larger lineup and vehicle C is good at this map, vehicle C will perform well and vehicle A won’t have it’s performance decreased and instead can be used on a different map where vehicle C suffers, increasing the performance on both vehicles.

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It’s probably a mixture of k/d and winrate mixed with SL per minute, a vehicle with lower multipliers is less likely to be uptiered than a vehicle with higher multipliers.

40

Sorry I don’t agree, respectfully. I don’t see how introducing a new vehicle has any bearing on any other. It for the new vehicle to find it’s place and the game to achieve stability.

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