Sorry, whats a BOL?
BOL is a counter measure pod mounted on weapon hardpoints and found on several different aircraft (FA2, F3, Gr7, Gripen, F-14B, JAS37D) which is the source of those aircraft large CM counts. Each pod contains 160 CMs and most aircraft with them can carry 2 - 4.
But they were nerfed into oblivion when the Gripen was added and in desperate need of major buffs. The effectiveness of each chaff packet for example is around 1/4 of what it should be.
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Wot? The Gripen was broken on release what are you talking about?
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You didnt read the full sentence. BOL Was nerfed into ground when the Gripen was added with them.
This left other aircraft that relied upon BOL in a very poor state and they still are today .
It is BOL that needs buffs. Neither the performance of the flares or Chaff dropped from BOL is accurate.
Both are modeled in-game as small calibre CMs with reduced burn time for the flares.
It should be large Flares with reduced burn time and standard calibre chaff.
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Oh I misunderstood then. I’m pretty sure the BOL nerfs weren’t that bad. They’re smaller calibre flares so naturally they burn for less time and at a lower luminosity.
They arent even flares. They are a cloud of basically chaff that produces an IR signature. They should be equally if not more effective than large calibre flares when it comes to luminosity. They do have a reduced burn time because again, they arent flares.
Video of BOL "flares":
Flare report:
Chaff Report:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/B8OvCzjZ7E91
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Cool thanks.
No I’m just really bad at notching apparantly even though I understand what I’'m supposed to do.
I’ll make an example video in tacview tomorrow
Thats cool, is this limited to British only?
Excluding the Gripen (Sweden, Britain and Italy) they are also found on the Viggen D and F-14B (also missing from the F-15C I think)
But basically all Rank 8 Briitsh aircraft use BOL (even the Tornado Gr1 should have them, but doesnt yet)
They are very common on a lot of modern NATO aircraft due to their small size, large volume of Countermeasures and effectivenss at defeating Gen 5 IR missiles.
The worse affected aircraft are the Tornado F3 (due to limited ability to defeat missile kinematically and get into the notch quickly) or SHar FA2 (due to the extremely “hot” nature of the Harrier engine, it would really benefit from better flares) both are struggling at the moment from the nerfs.
BOL is so ineffective that IRCCM missiles are almost impossible to defeat without dropping dozens and dozens of CMs and throttling to idle most of the time in both the F3 and FA2.
There was an issue when the Gripen was added that people were immune to IR missiles by just dropping flares at regular intervals (the reason for the original nerf) but with the introduction of ARH and the reduction in MP. This should no longer be as large of an issue and what issue is left is fixed by the burn time reduction.
But there is no excuse for the chaff being nerfed by 75%.
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One thing that I want to see is aircraft IR signature measured by the engine exhaust temp, and not by the engine temp. For example, on the Harriers the engine might be really hot but the exhaust is spread throughout the four nozzles and is also somewhat diluted; it should be lower temperature, and “harder” to track. This affects all aircraft, some more than others, another big one is the F-5s, their engine temp being really low but the large external IR signature of the afterburning engine is somewhat… not modeled.
And got nerfed multiple times yep “multiple times” biggest nerfed is BOL pod
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AFAIK the Gripen is still the best WVR fighter. But yeah it got nerfed a lot.
The thing about the ET is it has insane range and no launch warnings, the only way you know its coming is if you see the smoke or have MAW
It’s based upon thrust. Higher the thrust the less effective flares are. Harriers produce more thrust at a lower air speed.
Harriers should be able to hide their exhaust behind their wing and defeat basically any IR missiles without the use of CMs
I would also like to see it tuned per missile basis.
At least in the sim community, the people that are saying that Multipath is “essentially gone” with the 60m change and not working anymore, are the same people that are still quite consistently relying on it and doing well. Of course the Phoenix is a bit of an exception where the massive warhead of it will sometimes still damage the target, however it is incredibly easy to defeat in other ways.
Gaijin also addressed and fixed the 3 main concerns regarding the change. Tree heights, Stock grind and compression.
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Not without getting nerfed multiple times (it’s still king of dogfight) unlike F-16
Yeah, lost part of my wing to one in the F3 the other day from the splash damage. Was using notch, chaff and MP and still got hit by the splash damage, though the F3 has basically no Chaff and cant notch as hard as other aircraft (even though it should be able too)
So I do feel other changes would be needed. Like fixing BOL and adding appropriate Chaff pods to aircraft (like Phimat) but with that, MP could be removed just fine, especially in Sim. Its annoying to have most of my missiles defeated by someone just flying low.
Didn’t that Tornado receive a ton of large countermeasures recently in it’s BOL, with the AJ37?
In sim, I think we should add some spawn protection before reducing MP to realistic levels for very modern missiles, either by letting people be invincible 30 seconds from rolling or adding some new air defense that isn’t the insanely outdated Roland 1. It’s honestly laughable at anything past 9.0 imo.
Thats the IDS aircraft in their BOZ pods. The F3 Uses BOL like the Gripen and Viggen D and they are around 1/4 as effective as they should be:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/B8OvCzjZ7E91
As for the AF stuff, yeah, or perhaps a 100m MP bubble around the AF that extends for say 1-1.5km radius?
Probably way too complicated. People shouldn’t be firing into an airfield on people taking off anyways, I’d rather just have people be invincible x amount of time from rolling on the runway. Not in a bubble as people would just run to airfield to escape people.
Or just an actual good air defense system that’ll at the very least make it inconvenient for enemies to fly in there, maybe it can intercept missiles too