I already said this in numerous other threads, it is my subjective opinion that the addition of self propelled howitzers was a mistake and it made the game worse.
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I agree on that. The next even bigger mistake is auto-cannons shredding all the MBTs.
I think most of them are relatively balanced, and offers similar potential as other high-caliber TDs, like what the FV4005 should be, and similar to how the KV-2 is.
Their purpose as TDs is to destroy heavy tanks relatively easily, but suffer against mobile and versatile tanks (like light tanks and stabilized tanks at close range), and SPAAs
Ive said it earlier in this thread - modern IFVs vs. modern MBTs is fine, because modern MBTs have gun handling and mobility neccesary to react to IFV in time, unlike WW2 tanks having to react to something like Leo 40/70.
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Hence, the Coelian as it is right now is pure rubbish for the game. You name it.
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Those types of SPAAs generally are open-top with exposed crew members (other than the Kugel, Coelian, and maybe some others).
They are not that difficult to kill / disable as a result, as long as you are aware of their presence.
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Difference to FV4005 and KV-2 is that SPHs more often than not have medium tank mobility thanks to their post-WW2 chasis and some have better gun handling than FV4005 and KV-2, or tanks at BR they are placed at. Some then get access to post-WW2 HEAT-FS shells.
Anyway, low tier SPHs arent as cancerous as they are annoying. No one says M44 is meta, but if it rolls up to your tank (that just so happens to not have a commander MG) and vaporizes your forehead because it could see a single pixel of your turret, its annoying.
However the LRF equipped arty is pure cancer and no one can convince me otherwise. Cant outsnipe it since it has LRF, cant outreload it, cant push it since the 155mm HE invalidates any armor. Flank and good lord hope you know your shot placement and RNG gives you good spall since you wont get second chance.
Oh, absolutely. But it cucks the SPHs and the HEAT-FS go-karts and thats why I think its balanced (its not but since it makes their day worse…)
no they are not, but compared to tanks they face, they more often than not have large mobility advantage to which some older tanks wont be able to react in time and they do not concern themselves with shot placement or stabilizing their gun before firing because their high RoF gun encourage them to take every shot possible even if theyre going like mach fck.
Similiar situation as with the aforementioned M44 - theyre currently annoying to deal with.
Frankly this is the one aspect about their balance that is a bit iffy, the mobility.
When it comes to the shooty shooty part, playing a Brummbar and an M44 is basically an identical experience. Hell, even when it comes to being shot at, because the Brummbar will sometimes tank shots with its armour, and the M44 will sometimes survive shots with its lack of armour. But the mobility is a big + in favour of the M44.
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not just M44, M55 at 4.0 BR has better HP/T than Chaffee and Puma, 3.7 light tanks.
As you said, the shooting part between Brummbar and M44 is identical, and I would have absolutely zero issues with that. I would have zero issues with being slapped by M55 point blank too.
But the mobility makes them feel more mobile than some medium tanks. Such large f-off gun should be unwieldy to use, take long to get into position and basically be gimmick in frontline combat, not leading a charge into the city (there i said it).
People like to argue that SPHs were used in direct fire, or that modern SPHs have provisions to engage tanks directly - but if your SPH is being regularly used in direct fire against enemy tanks, something went really, really wrong at the strategic level.
This part doesn’t really concern me ngl. War Thunder is not real war. It’s a competitive game, like a sport.
We use everything “improperly” tbh. Not just artys or PT-76s, even Panthers etc. The realism in WT is mostly verisimilitude, not really adherence to reality, and that’s a good thing, because reality tends to be imbalanced and when it comes to war, also very unpleasant.
The additional reason why it doesn’t concern me is that real history is full of oddities like that anyway. The Dicker Max was initially designed as a bunker-buster to fire at the Maginot Line. Then they sent it to Russia because what the hell. It never even saw the Maginot Line if I remember correctly, even during the occupation of France. And in Russia they started pointing it at armoured trains and KV-1s and wouldn’t you know it, it worked just fine.
So I’m purely thinking about game balance.
They do have limitations that make it hard for them to exploit that mobility, in fact paradoxically it can even get you killed if you over-extend and don’t manage your reload time. I think they’re generally okay where they are but if they go up by 0.3 or 0.7 I feel it will largely be because they are mobile.
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Theres misunderstanding then, im not the one using real life argument, I try to confine my arguments to the ingame boundaries.
Ive seen some other people claim that since it was done IRL its okay in WT.
To be fair, thats true for all tanks with any degree of mobility.
As much often as the “DoI has no bearing on vehicle BR placement” is brought up, I wouldnt shy just bumping the SPHs to the BRs where their chassis can be found, ie. M55 to M47 Patton BR etc.
Before you crucify me, Im saying that because as I said, such big-f off guns should be unwieldy to use and gimmick at frontline, not be the meta pick for certain scenarions (such as Pzh2000 for long range sniping).
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Fair!
Sure, but what I meant is that typically tanks with great mobility don’t have 20 or 30 second-reloads.
Usual problem: Gaijin wants people to play these. Can’t control player behaviour. If they are perceived to not be competitive then they will rarely be used. Event vehicles like the Sturmtiger can get away with this because they serve the game in other ways (FOMO/collectable) but a main tech tree vehicle will usually not be placed at a BR where it’s just a gimmick.
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I think all tech tree tanks should be viable to play.
They don’t have to be meta, but if the M44 / M55 were at 7.3 (where the M47 is at the moment), they’d largely just be a gimmick.
M44 / M55 are not really meta at 4.0 (though they may be annoying ) but at least they are relatively viable if played right.
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Im not saying that they should be unplayable; just that their playability cannot come from the fact that they have similiar HP/T to contemporary light tanks, at least for their current BR.
Way I see it, they can still be a full gimmick while remaining playable in some capacity.
Lets take the M55 as example.
The whole vehicle is defined by its 203mm gun.
Currently, the overpressure penetration on its main shell is only marginally better (64.7mm for shell with TNT equivalent of 23.06kg) than the overpressure penetration of the M44 (61.1mm for shell with TNT equivalent of 9.14kg). Currently, according to protection analysis, a direct hit to the Maus turret face will damage a radiator and…thats really it.
Why not just fully commit to the vehicle gimmick - fixing the overpressure penetration of 203mm gun (larger than those found on some of the ships), and make it truly a one shot wonder. Make a direct hit tear tank apart. Make direct hit to the turret face obliterate the turret ring. And place it at BR where its mobility isnt better than most mediums.
That way, we will have a vehicle that is gimmick, but a viable one due to the power of the gun, on condition that it is played right.
Same can be done for vehicles like FV4005 etc.
Never said they are, they are just incredibly annoying to face in regular tank.
If you think about it for a second, you have basically described the Sturmtiger. There are caveats to differentiate it of course, like the much longer reload, but the Sturmtiger is similarly a tank that can one-shot any single ground vehicle that exists in this game if played correctly, and yet it is encountered very rarely. I myself only take it out once in a blue moon and yet I would say I enjoy it - I’m just not often in the mood to play it, because it does put you at a handicap.
Like I said earlier, the Sturmtiger can get away with being gimmicky because it’s a rare and famous event vehicle, not a regular tech tree vehicle, but who would touch the M55 if it was like that? “Sacrifice every other factor for the chance to one-shot any vehicle in the game”.
Definitely not as many people as are playing the M44 and M55 now.
So if you look at it from a game design POV, the answer is obvious…
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It is. Sadly.
Yeah, thats my issue - too many people play them currently over normal tanks.
The snail gives, and the snail takes away.
Like I always say, the MMO logic must always be kept in mind when looking at issues in WT.
While the MMO logic comes with some pretty big downsides, it also comes with upsides (for example because it enables 12+ years of ongoing development and the creation of literal thousands of vehicles in one game)
The issue with the SPAA, actually not even a SPAA issue I feel like Gaijin balancing is so lazy. All they do is just nerf the vehicle into a higher BR (new flash its still broken ive seen 341s kill IS-3s). I think they should just nerf the pen and return it to how it was; I understand that it is ahistorical but its not the first time gaijin has done something like this with examples of the Sargent York
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