Alot SPAAs have this kind of pen or more, even at much lower BRs. Should I remind you on every single one of these? ZSU-37 at RB BR of 3.3 (!), HVAP 87mm pen and many, many more from alot different nations.
Its just that so far German SPAAs were capped at around 50mm penetration up to 7.0 Kugelblitz, since their higher pen ammo was denied so far. The HVAP for MK103 (Kugel) was even nerfed down to 70mm pen or something.
So players got used to anemic Ger SPAA vehicles, which could barely defeat any ground vehicle with 50mm pen at 10 m. While they’re sporting high pen SPAA themselfs from ZSU-37 at 3.3 up to Leopard 1 SPAAs with almost 100mm pen at 6.0 or something.
Its just fair to give Ger SPAAs their higher pen shells as well. All of them should get them tbh.
Its just fairplay. Players need to adapt as Ger players had to. It never had been fun to play Panzer IV vs. ZSU-37. So…why should it be different for others?
I’m fine with 341 going up to 6.7 or even 7.0. But there are more elements at play that should be considered. 341 is only played by experienced players, while many of the USA teams it faces have no idea what they’re doing and how to take on the 341. There are some skill issues at play on those allied teams. Have had tanks exposing their side armour constantly trying to chase my 341 around. We’ll see allied teams adapt to it and improve how they’re conducting themselves in battle.
I rarely post in the forums, but reading this thread is amusing at how many “just shoot the turret” arguments there are to defend it as if WT was a game of perfect situational awareness and timing.
You never get caught reloading, never get caught engaging someone else, there isn’t anything else ever overpowering their engine noise, never get double-teamed, are never damaged…
Sure, the spherical coelian in a vacuum loses to most actual armor, but WT isn’t an idealized 1v1 blank untextured flat cube duel situation. The Coelian is an extremely efficient vulture, taking advantage of its vastly superior reaction time, no interruptions for reloads, and huge rates of fire to exploit every window there is to a punishing degree. Case in point, I fired at a Coelian from behind with a 90mm M3 shot, it went low and the Coelian lost its drivetrain but simply immediately turned and vaporized me. I suppose its just a skill issue my gun has dispersion and isn’t a literal rail cannon? I got the first shot off and caught him unaware, but one of those may external factors not discussed kicked in (the shell being off-target slightly) and so he won anyhow. If it was a normal panther, the slow turret traverse would have cost him.
As to the guns doing too much damage: no they aren’t by Gaijin logic™; the shell has almost twice as much filler as PzGr 39/42 and so will be doing roughly twice as much damage as a panther’s main gun per penetration. (Fun aside, the “”“API-T”“” APHE round on 35mm Oerlikon has only 1g less filler!)
And for them penetrating? Almost every tank has cut-outs for parts, cupolas, or joint areas that is below the penetration number. And since you have giga-RoF APHE, even if it is some odd corner or cupola, you’ll blow up everything as surely as 75mm Jumbo players whacking things in uptiers do… just far, far faster and easier. There’s no fixing this, volumetric won’t fix it. Because those weakpoints will still exist in the volumetric model - those are real cut-outs for real reasons.
The ONLY way to fix it without ahistoric nerfing would be to fix APHE. But the community voted for their one-shot tactical nukes, and they are getting them.
German tankers also have to deal with high pen AA guns. From BR 3 onwards. Wounder were all these concerns were. Panzer IV with 50mm turret armor and 70 front armor is hellish to play vs. SPAA like ZSU37 (almost 90mm pen autocannon). Don’t see alot Ger players complaining. Confusing. This Flakpanzer 341 got 60mm turret armor at BR 6.3 …the turret is huge…impossible to miss.
Who plays what has nothing to do with ZSU-37 being on 3.3. Having 87 mm pen HVAP at 3.3 is way worse than having broken APHE shell at 6.3 no matter how broken it is.
Damn seen a few vids, nice to see these old vehicles getting work regardless. Sad I only got the panther 2 and kt 105 back in the day, coelian probably going to get up tiered but given the amount of them out there it definitely gives owners the chance to dust them off and try out the changes I imagine this will all blow over in a week or 2 and they go back to sitting in the unused section proverbial flavour of the month thing.
Its a speedy Leopard 1 chassis at 6.0 (!). Its very low BRed. Very fast…means it gets to power positions early on and this almost 100mm pen Bofors is killing alot vehicles from all angles. I don’t really get why it isn’t 8.0 or something.
Probably because it can be easily destroyed by machineguns of both air and ground, although yeah it could be much higher in br with apfsds shells, while for lower brs M113 AA prototypes could be added.
Maybe you should start pretending that APHE and HVAP is not equal in damage that will possibly give you some ideas.
Oh really ? I didn’t see him comparing open top SPAA to completley enclosed Coelian and Kugelblitz ? Didn’t he completley ignored that Leopard 40/70 crew can be killed by coaxial ?
A lot of the weird penetrations are currently occuring due to a bug with API/APHE/APHEI/SAPHEI shells, which causes them to ignore any armour when the target fired at is moving away from you.
I have reported the issue already and the report was accepted, so hopefully it’ll be fixed soon. https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/TMikCiQYmlmd
To be quite honest, they could literally just swap the Kugelblitz and Flakpanzer 341’s br and it’d be far more reasonable for either vehicle. (Kugelblitz is 7.0, Flakpanzer 341 is 6.3 currently)
But then again, I would prefer waiting for a fix to the “aphe/etc. ignore armour” bug to come, aswell as hopefully some changes on the “fixed” ricochet mechanics before fixating on that.
A lot of the complaints come from those that will simply point at whatever is currently killing them the most, very often those people that will play the same spots over and over again just to die right away and instead of trying to figure out which mistakes they made that lead to their death and thereby try to adjust their gameplay to not repat them, they’ll instead point at anything but themself. This usually results in complaining about popular vehicle xy (FOTM basically) being broken and overexaggerating it beyond any reasonable level.
And for some reason this playerbase has a habit of acting as if anything with a reload-time below 5 business days is automatically overpowered.
I play all the way up to top tier, and have been playing since before tanks were even in WT. Dying in an IS-7 to a Gepard is always an “Alexa, play entry of the gladiators” moment.
The ItPsv Leopard is the only thing that fully matches the combination offered by the Coelian and is widely despised (and a baffling choice when the actual ItPsv 90 could have been put in game) for that reason. Falcon? Not terribly fast, made of glass everywhere. And the British suffer tremendously, so I can sort of feel for them.
Gepard? Fast, but not ultra-fast (hey there ItPsV Leopard 2!) at its BR, also mostly made of glass, and huge. What is most annoying about them is that as a tree vehicle from a highly populated faction, there’s tons of them which somewhat makes them being made of a glass turret on a WW2 armor chassis moot.
Coelian has good( if not record-breaking) agility, gun handling that is nearly ultra-fast and nearly stabilized in stability, good survivability (the turret being moderately thin doesn’t change it being well angled from a ricochet and getting gaijin’d perspective - and it’s a panther hull), and the ability to pump out main-gun-damage shots at hundreds of rounds a minute without interruption.
Other vehicles in different nations and times being OP doesn’t excuse this, taking that logic to its ultimate conclusion results in everyone driving gokarts with lolpen one-shot kill guns (or high pen spamcannons) and the gameplay more or less resembling CoD. Because every broken vehicle has to be met with more brokenness out of righteous indignation, right? Gameplay will just circle the drain harder and harder until it is realized actual sanity has to be brought in balance. Although with the community voting for their APHE nukes, they’re getting what they asked for.
They absolutely do not. And Falcon is great in its own way (small and easy to hide). It’s not a flanker like the ZA-35, so don’t play it like one. Anyway, you missed my whole point. You died because you didn’t make your 90mm shot count. You deserved to lose that encounter, and many vehicles you’ll come across will make you pay the ultimate price if you don’t make your shot count. I was assuming - from your example - that you’re new to this game and shocked that you died because you didn’t make your shot count.