Yeah… I’ve had more than a few: “Where the bloody hell did that missile come from” moments, that i’ve chalked up to just missing it somehow, but if you’ve had something similar…
maybe it warrants investigating at some point.
Next time I get killed by one and didnt see a RWR. I’ll grab a screenshot and screen recording and then go and look in the replay. Perhaps do the same if you can.
I would but I don’t have any recording software atm, looking to get some soon though.
There is no evidence of it being a SARH missile, me when I spread misinformation. If you’re going to cite the fact that a test pilot referred to the AD-40A as a “Fox 1” I should also add some US pilots when firing the AIM-54 in circumstances referred to the missile as Fox 1 during the initial DL phase which requires direct input from the mother radar (AWG-9).
Additionally the Fakour-90 isn’t based off the Hawk but more akin to the AIM-54, the dimensions of the missile itself are slightly different to the 54 and distinctively different to the Hawk as well, it only shares a motor with the Hawk iirc (which contributes to its insane range).
Aka the true guidance method (SARH or ARH) is debated and remains more likely to be a ARH unless proven otherwise
At a guess, maybe it was guiding by TWS from the launching F-14 and only went pitbull at very short range? If it’s the same seeker head as the AIM-54, but with substantially better kinematics due to the improved booster, then if it’s set to go pitbull at, say 5 km from the target, then what is usually a very comfortable period of time before impact is substantially cut.
Next time it happens, open up the replay and check the sensor view, see when the F90’s seeker engages.
Pitbull range should be the same as everything else based upon datamines and just because it’s still being supported by DL doesn’t change when it goes Pitbull.
It’s high speed probably does play a part in it. But unless it’s doing something like Mach 15. I would expect an RWR warning sooner than 3 or so seconds before impact assuming it’s going Pitbull at 16km. If it triggers it at all (which I’m fairly certain I never got warning from one before, but not confident enough to say that I didn’t miss it whilst doing 3 things at once)
But yes, that is the plan. Grab a game recording to check what happened in game and then review in replay (replay can be different to in-game events I’ve found) and go from there
I posted these in the BR changes topic, but I’ll repost here…
War Thunder is full of dumb people, cocky people, 14.0s who think they don’t need to notch for anyone.
People cry about the F90 because they’ve been told that the optimal engagement range for an AIM120 is well within 40KM. So they’ll fly there… ignore any warnings… because they think their missile will be the long-range baddie. But no, your F90 is already about to say hello to them.
Basically, the F90 is there to kill dumb players and there are no shortage of them in War Thunder.
Call it a community service.
We’ve gone over this before, and you can believe that, but I don’t fully believe that.
Well yeah fair enough, a voice in a video isn’t proof, but it’s interesting to me personally.
Worth mentioning it has less range than the Phoenix A or C IRL.
I’m very much aware, but it’s still a possibility. Not saying it shouldn’t be ARH ingame, too little about it is known to fully confirm the speculation anyway.
I’m sure you’ve seen this already, I may have even shared it with you already, but it was proof enough for me when I started digging into this, and the more and more I looked, the more and more the possibility seemed quite real.
The inscription, design, and state of the Air Force simply leads me to speculate on the true capabilities of the missile. I have doubts of its capabilities, and wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it being ARH was just propaganda of some sort.
Yes sometimes it act like a mica and wont come of ur a$$ (probably bcuz its allready too close)
Worth mentioning it has less range than the Phoenix A or C IRL
The Fakour-90 uses the motor of the Improved Hawk or I-Hawk for short, the range and acceleration of the missile is well documented and almost perfectly represented in-game iirc - it has further effective range than the Phoenix.
I’m very much aware, but it’s still a possibility. Not saying it shouldn’t be ARH ingame, too little about it is known to fully confirm the speculation anyway
That’s why it has the same onboard radar as the primitive AIM-54A in-game even though the Fakour-90 is significantly more modern, it was a reserve estimate by Gaijin.
and wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if it being ARH was just propaganda of some sort
This can literally be said for all classified stuff, not a good argument and especially about something this well documented outside of the missiles seeker.
No this is not true, the Fakour 90 has less range IRL than the Aim-54A/C. Worth mentioning the Phoenix is underperforming in range ingame right now. It does use the MiM-23B’s motor, but it’s not enough to get it past the phoenix’s known max ranges.
The Fakour 90 is “well documented” in having less range than the Phoenix, and it’s been a large point of criticism for quite some time now. All stated ranges in excess of 180km that I’ve seen are estimates from third party observers and just guesswork. I believe Iran itself stated its maximum range is ~160km, notably slightly less than the known ~180km max range of the Phoenix. It’s still quite a long range ARH AAM, but it’s not longer range than the Aim-54. I think Iran even justified it at some point saying the missile was a MRAAM or something.
Yeah and I’m fine with that, good decision on their part given we have no information about the seeker specs at all.
Except there isn’t a lot or any contradictory information to the claims of the capabilities of those systems like is seen here. It’s just so unusual. I’m not saying anything should change ingame, I never said that, just that a possibility of it not being ARH is very much ever present.
No this is not true, the Fakour 90 has less range IRL than the Aim-54A/C
It would get you far if you actually read my message, I said the Fakour-90 has more effective range than the AIM-54, the maximum range of the AIM-54 is hardly achievable outside of optimal conditions.
It’s still quite a long range ARH AAM, but it’s not longer range than the Aim-54. I think Iran even justified it at some point saying the missile was a MRAAM or something
I hope you do realise that you’re comparing missiles of two different ages? The Fakour-90 is both digitalized and more modern of a missile when compared to the AIM-54 all whilst being more effective in the modern day environment, it’s like saying the AIM-54 is more capable than the AIM-120 because one has more range than the other.
I’m not saying anything should change ingame, I never said that, just that a possibility of it not being ARH is very much ever present
The issue I have with your post is the fact you’re trying to undermine Iranian military hardware sidelining them as a nation built on propaganda which is incredibly untrue, Iran has revolutionised modern warfare and especially with drones to the point that America made their own domestic “version” of the Shahed suicide drone.
I was having the issue of unavoidable 8km fakours right until the moment I turned up my rwr sensitivity to like 70% (it was 20%). Funnily enough 20% is enough to ping all modern ARH stuff from advertised 16km, it is specifically the fakour (maybe phoenix aswell?) having this issue.
Mine is set to 40% so this might very well be the issue
I did hear complaints of the issue from a person who had it at 50%, so yeah, very likely. Also now that I think about it, phoenix does have the same exact seekerhead, therefore it must be the same deal.
Well I wasn’t ever talking about that, simply the maximum range and how it’s lower on the Fakour than on the Phoenix. But fair enough I guess, it is much better at closer and medium ranges, it will accelerate faster and reach a closer target sooner. But again, that wasn’t something I was mentioning, I cared more about stating its maximum range not its effective ranges as it’s a category (even if it’s the only one) the Phoenix surpasses it in.
I never said one was better then the other, I simply brought up the fact it has less maximum range than the Phoenix, as I felt it was worth mentioning that even with its new motor it didn’t surpass it there. A simple comparison in maximum range was all this was. Ofc it’s a better tradeoff anyway, even thought that range is really needed nowadays against other modern ARH AAMs which are coming close to its ranges. I’ll drop the topic of its range however going forward.
I’m not undermining them, I simply have doubts about a specific muntions stated capabilities. The state of their Air Force and their arsenal was just one factor to me drawing these conclusions. The nation isn’t built on propaganda, that’s hardly the case. I simply believe in this specific instance the claims made about this missile are questionable given some contradictory evidence. I’m a big fan of Iranian aviation military history and Iranian tomcats in particular. For instance I would love to see the following buffs, with no need for a Fakour nerf:
• Addition of the Aim-7E-4 (which for those unaware is an Aim-7E-2 with an Aim-7F seekerhead).
• Buffs to the Iranian AWG-9 radar, given beneficial changes were made to Iranian tomcat’s radars. Some changed off the top of my head are reduced ground clutter and better look down shoot down capabilities.
• Possibly add the Fattir, but it’s quite illusive and so little is known, even its name changes depending on where you look.
• Buff the Aim-54A’s range/drag, and allow it to pull 24.7Gs. Also allow the Fakour 90 to pull ~24.7Gs.
• Add NCTR, which I believe the F-14A has and was one of the first aircraft in the world to have.
• And ofc 6x Aim-54As and Fakour 90s.
There’s also some possible and realistic nerfs, such as:
• Reducing the Sedjil’s G-pull to 15Gs, no idea where the 20G stat came from, everywhere I’ve read state Hawks and I-Hawks pull 15Gs max. Maybe there’s something I missed there, I dunno.
• Removing the R-27R1, as it was incompatible with the Radar in testing and the attempted application was abandoned.
I’m very passionate about this aircraft, I have nothing personal against it, the Fakour 90, or the country using them. It’s very much possible it’s an ARH AAM, but it’s also very possible it’s not.
Ngl man, I kinda don’t care about splitting the hairs at this point for an EVENT vehicle’s accuracy on a secretive reclusive nation and questioning if it could ACTUALLY carry the missile because “Erm we only saw it on promotional photos!”
At this point just give it the missile and be done with it. It’s hard to argue historical accuracy at this point when we’re having compound Frankenstein jets flying around, and it frankly makes no sense to essentially have an Aim-9J up at 13.0
I get that, but there isn’t a way to even go about that. How would they model it, as it how would it be mounted? They did crazy stuff trying to get the R-27 on their tomcats, but they used different rails. There just isn’t enough for gaijin to work with to make that happen sadly. Tbf it shouldn’t be 13.0 anyway, but at the same time 12.7 feels too low. Could really use some decompression.
I get that, and I agree. But do you think Gaijin legitimately would care? Kh-38MT is basically operating off of marketing claims. I can own a REAL LIFE F-16AJ right now by printing off the brochure because that’s as real as the plane was. At this point, you’re literally diggin’ in yo butt just to find some resources just so we can figure out what the plane COULD carry. I’m not poking fun at you. But at this point, there’s so little we know that taking the path of least resistance for an event plane is a lot better towards making it more competitive at the BR it’s at.
Original hawks pulled to 15Gs, upgraded hawks had a max commanded single plane G load of 20Gs.
Whats the diffrnce between it and iff?