xD j7e, any f5, f20 (after the next patch), all mirage, all kfir, all mig23 have better manouverablity then f4 xDDDD
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It’s comparison to the F-16AJ that matters most.
The fact it’s 11.7 instead of 12.0 with better loadout than F-16AJ with the only negative being it can’t dogfight…
EJ Kai is better for the BR for sure.
@_mar
The reason F-4E is 11.0 is because its missiles aren’t great. AIM-9Js being the best missile it gets, and AIM-7E/E-2 depending on the F-4E on a radar that notices chaff quite easily.
F-4F is the best 10.7 gun fighter [yes, gun fighter] in the game with F-5E in 2nd.
People don’t speak about gun fighters at the top end. F-16 isn’t a gun fighter, cause it’s mostly reliant on its 6x 9Ls.
War Thunder also isn’t about dogfights.
Not really, no. It’s already a hardbody (no agile eagle slats) Phantom that can’t outrun or outmaneuver its peers at or below its BR most of the time, having to face current top-tier aircraft like the F-15s, Gripen, SU-27, and M4k.
Thinking that giving this brick AAM-3s would somehow make it overpowered is laughable at best when you consider its hard stats instead of anecdotal evidence.
F-4EJ Kai goes 1.15 mach on the deck.
That’s not as fast as Mirage 2000, and EJ Kai is as-fast as F-14A and others.
EJ Kai’s hard stats are what we’ve been talking about BTW.
Ok now lets say it was 12.3 and all the current top dogs are 12.7 and earlier versions such as f16as and mig29s are 12.0.
Do four good missiles really warrant a position where its placed higher than 12.0 4th gens and only mildly under the absolute top aircraft right now?
Radar isnt a consideration, everything has equal or similar radar
Flight performance is significantly worse, in energy retention, power plant, maneuverability, everything.
It does have 4 radar missiles, but if I could, I would trade my aim7s for additional aam3s. Doesn’t work too well when everyone flies low.
Now for whether dogfights happen, sure, they are somewhat uncommon, but I’ve died many times in a f4 because the flight performance was incapable of dodging missiles, or even just to notch.
I do not believe that a f4 with aam3s would be so much better than a f16 or mig29 at 12.0 to warrant a be of 12.3
Av8b+ are rated at a br of 11.7 as well, good radar and aim9ms do exist at 11.7.
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Four of the single best IR missile in War Thunder would warrant that yes.
AV-8B isn’t a supersonic fighter.
Mig-29 9.12 is 12.0 instead of 11.7 because of R-27ERs, and not 12.7 because it doesn’t have R-73s.
EJ Kai is 11.7 instead of 11.3 because of its 9Ls with 7Fs.
Yak-141 is 12.0 with a rather eh airframe because of its R-27T/ETs.
Why yes, it flies mildly faster than one aircraft out of 20+ it may face.
…While still being an underwhelming, power-creeped aircraft that has to fight the tip-top of power creepers. I guess getting an extra two Aim-7Fails somehow makes up for that, especially when the current top-tier meta is flying low and even more so when the sparrows just tend to do a loop or fail drastically in some other way for a good chunk of the community despite what should be a perfect acquirement.
Edit: Let’s not even mention the Kurnass 2000 with six Python 3s (rather fantastic missiles), and agile eagle flaps at 11.3.
But the aim9m/aam3 the best missle in the game atm
Sending it to 12.3 will be similar to all the ground premiums at 11.3. All matches will be effectively 12.7 and higher. If in consideration of lower br planes, when I played the f4ej at 11.7 after the br changes, uptiers never happened and 12.0 aircraft were rare. I don’t see why that would change.
At most, a br of 12.0 would likely still be somewhat confortable, where flight performance vs missiles is the only comparison between peers.
If the f4ej kai was to get aam3 at the cost of 12.3, I would reject that and stay with aim9ls, because I don’t want to only face 12.7 aircraft and be stomped 24/7
If you’re talking about the F-4EJ Kai (I have Alvis blocked) then the EJ Kai is still doing quite well in current meta due to its matchmaker and its weapons/avionics.
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…Can’t the K2000 or F-16AJ accomplish most of what it can do, but better one way or another?
EJ Kai is not power-crept at all.
Saying meta radar missiles are bad cause half the match flies on the ground most of the time still doesn’t change that they’re good missiles.
EJ Kai is better than all but two 11.3s in the game, those two are coincidentally Kurnass 2000 and Viggen D, which are themselves OP at 11.3, which you mention even. It should be brought back to 11.7 where it belongs.
@JoshX9706
That’s why EJ Kai should retain its existing loadout and stay at 11.7 where it’s both balanced and strong.
This is also why I never ask for missiles on my favorite aircraft, cause it will lead to higher BRs to where they are now and make me no longer play it.
F-14B should always retain 9Ls only, so it can stay 12.0 where it’s fun.
EJ Kai is fun at 11.7.
Viggen will be fun at 11.3/11.7 without AMRAAMs.
Mirage 4000 is fun at 12.7 without MICA EMs.
And so forth.
I’d take a Magic 2 only Rafale if that was an option.
Id take a gimped f2 with just aam3s and aim7s at this point
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Tornado ADV? Sure it’s technically not a 7F but it’s a contemporary
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I personally did think Tornado ADV is under-BR’d, however it does have worse radar missiles, a worse radar, and cannot dogfight.
Though it is slightly faster at mach 1.2 instead of 1.15 of EJ Kai.
K2000 no because doesn’t have SARH so its just different, not better, and the F-16AJ is a much higher BR.
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12.0 compared to 11.7 is “such a higher BR”? That’s literally just one higher, and means they’ll see majority same enemies…
I thought the 16AJ was 12.3 tbh, not sure why it isn’t. Either way it’s a lower BR (F-4EJ) so it’s not directly comparable. The game is just compressed if you’re wondering why they’re only 0.3br apart.
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Only actual difference is a mild improvement in mobility bc it uses the f16a block 10 frame with block 15 missiles. if it had the funny gear door pylons, maybe it would be 12.3 but that isnt here.
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It’s just sad seeing TTs like the JPN one stagnate because people don’t want to give vehicles the features/armaments they have for the sake of fun, when decompression could mean they could do both…
But because of player stagnancy and stubbornness, Gaijin gets off free, same reason prems are rapidly approaching $100 in price and suckers are still buying em