It got nerfed like a week after
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It was a nerf over a buff project.
It ended up being still a buff anyway. Some of the relevant 2.53.0.43 buffs were not even touched on 2.53.0.45.
The biggest part of the buff pretty much carried over even after this nerf here.
The rate was waaaaay off the charts with the first buff, it still is but not as much.
Anyway, the Flanker FM is very much enjoyable now, much more competitive than it was before.
it still doesn’t meet its lift charts rn even while overperforming which is super dumb. fixed flanker would essentially be worse in rate than it is rn (sustained a specific speed when turning), but with much better first turn ability + retaining more speed when pulling hard when losing speed
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Usual case of bug reporter saying “X” to the devs, devs understand “Y” and proceed to implement "Z"😭
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Why? there are plenty of planes with IRCCM at lower BRs
None that have 4x IRCCM + 4x SARH, a large defensive suite and a very good FM.
Unless you consider the F-15A equal to stuff like the Tornado GR4 or Mirage F1? or one of the sub-sonics?
Let alone the F-15J with the extremely potent AAM-3s
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You’re op stated the only way it would get moved down is by losing AIM-9Ms. There’s 0 point to have SARH only planes at anything past 12.7, heck even 12.3, since every 13.0/12.7 match is a full uptier almost every single time going against ARH slingers.
yeah f-15j going down is especially egregious, aam3s fix almost everything wrong with the 9m while also having the same irccm type.
40 gs (though the actual pull isn’t too much harder) but so much less drag + stronger motor
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Hu?
Yes, It should loose Aim-9M if it actually moves down to 12.7, it would at least nerf it somewhat, bring it more on par ish with the Mig-29s and F-18s.
But I cant think of a single justification for why 11.7s or even really 12.0s should have to deal with an F-15A. Let alone an F-15J
Yep, that thing is about to make playing 11.7 and maybe also 12.0, incredibly frustrating
If 11.7s and 12.0s shouldnt have to deal with a F15A then why do planes that only have SARH missiles have to deal with ARH missile slingers.
Your entire argument as to why it shouldn’t get moved down, being “well why do these things have to face it”, is the exact same argument supporting why it should get moved down. If the only thing going for it is AIM-9Ms, then it needs to be moved down since it goes against Fox 3 spam.
move the fox 3s up is an easy answer
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Why should aircraft like the Gripen A, F-16A and F-16A OCU with only IRCCM missiles have to deal with the F-15A with both IRCCM and SARH missiles? Let alone aircraft like the Netz with only IR Missiles at 12.7.
Your logic fails when you go the other way, though ultimately the issue is one of compression which creates an absolute mess at the moment and the solution is to move a lot of stuff up, instead of down. But even then, I cant think of a single reason why the F-15A would be all that different, or even at a different BR to that of the weak ARH aircraft like the Sea Harrier FA2 or F-14A.
Because the worst ARH carriers are roughly on par or worse than the best SARH/IR only aircraft. I doubt the F-15A is worse than the Sea Harrier FA2, or even the J-8F.
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AFAIK, the Swedish Gripen A is able to carry SARH missiles.
And again, if the F-15A is so much of a menace with its so feared IR IRCCM + SARH combo —albeit missing the radar situation entirely—, then push for its 9Ms to be removed.
I genuinely doubt anyone would make an argument about it, 9Ms IRCCM only works against false positive flaring people. Anyone aware of a 9M being launched at, most of the time, is able to easily flare it anyway.
A pair of Skyflash DFs (So basically Aim-7E-2s) that also means giving up BOL rails, So very weak SARH for the BR with a major downside, I doubt few if any actually ever use them and certainly substantially weaker than Aim-7M on the F-15A, let alone R-27ER or any ARH
Which is what I said
They are problematic at the moment, sure, but equally bad on aircraft like the Tornado Gr4 just 0.3 lower and that has half the IR missile count and no SARH at all (and that is just the F-15A with Aim-9M, F-15J with AAM-3 is truly insane)
And they are also under active investigation according to Gunjob, so they might not be quite so problematic in the future (We hope)
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I said it on the BR changes thread, the F-15J situation should be addressed separately from the F-15A. AAM-3s are a straight upgrade from AIM-9Ms, those will effectively be a menace even side aspect from more than 3km against 11.7 stuff.
Yep, its ultimately a compression issue, but the solution isnt making compression worse
Sea harrier FA2 has 2 ARH and 2 IRCCM.
F-14A is at 12.7, so you just supported the argument that 12.7 is not a bad BR for it by since you “cant thing of a single reason why they would be all that different”
If we look at planes at 12.7 or that it would have to face for some nations, we will see it’s not all that bad of a change to go to 12.7:
USA:
12.7: F/A-18C Early 6 AIM-7Ps, F-14A Early 6 Aim-54 or 6 AIM-7Fs
12.3: F/A-18A 4 AIM-7Ms (same as F-15A), F-16A 6 AIM-9Ls
12.0: F-4J 6 AIM-7F, F-4S 6 AIM-7F
11.7: A-10C 4 AIM-9Ms, F-111F 6 AIM-9Ls
USSR:
12.7: Mig-29 2 R-27R or R-27ER (both better than AIM-7M) 2 R-27T (IRCCM) 4 R-60M, Yak-141 4 R-27R 4 R-27T 2 R-27ER 2 R-60M
12.3: N/A
12.0: N/A
11.7: SU-25SM3 2 R-73 (IRCCM), Mig-23ML/Mig-23MLD 2 R-24R 2 R-24T 4 R-60M
China:
12.7: N/a
12.3: JH-7A / JH-7A Prototype 4 PL-5EII (IRCCM) 2 PL-8 (40G of pull),
12.0: N/A
11.7: N/A
France:
12.7: F-16A OCU 6 AIM-9Ms 4 R550 Magic 2 (IRCCM), Mirage 2000C-S5 2 Matra Super 530D 2 R550 Magic 2, Mirage 2000D-RMC 2 R550 Magic 2
12.3: Mirage 2000D-R1 2 R550 Magic 2, Mirage 2000C-S4 2 Matra Super 530D 2 R550 Magic 2
12.0: Mirage F1C-200 2 Matra Super 530F 1 Matra Super 530 2 R550 Magic 2, Mirage F1CT 2 Matra Super 530F 2 R550 Magic 2, Mirage F1C 2 Matra Super 530F 1 Matra Super 530 2 R550 Magic 2
11.7: N/A
So really it is not bad to be at 12.7 if you’re so worried about the IRCCM seeing how there are already plenty of planes at that range with IRCCM.
If you’re truly dead set on AIM-9Ms being a problem at 12.7, then you should be all for the proposed system of BRs changing based on what ordinance you unlock.
For example, F-15A gets moved to 12.3 until AIM-7s get unlocked and it goes to 12.7. Once AIM-9Ms are unlocked, it goes to 13.0. Then you don’t have to deal with ARH while stock, and 11.7 doesnt have to deal with AIM-9Ms.
Now if you compare the F-15A to the planes ABOVE it, that’s where the problem becomes clear especially since majority of games are up tiers.
This list I will make short and quick and only include US and Russia
USA:
13.0: F-14B and F-14A IRAF 6 and 4 Aim-54s respectfully, AV-8B plus 4 AIM-120
13.3: F-16A ADF 6 AIM-120,
13.7: F-16C 6 AIM-120s/6 AIM-9Ms, F-15C MSIP II 8 AIM-120/4 AIM-9Ms,
14.0: F/A-18C Late 10 AIM-120B or C 6 AIM-9Ms, F-15E 8 AIM-120B or C 4 AIM-9Ms
Russia:
13.0: SU-33 8 R-27ER 6 R-73 (IRCCM), Su-27 6 R-27ER 2 R-27T/ET (IRCCM) 6 R-73,
13.3: Mig-29SMT 6 R-77 2 R-27ER 2 R-27T/ET 6 R-73, SU-30Mk2 AMV 6 RVV-AE 6 R-27ER1 2 R-27ET1 6 R-73E,
13.7: SU-34 8 R-77 8 R-27R/ER 8 R-27T/ET 6 R-73, SU-27SM 8 R-77 6 R-27R/ER 2 R-27T/ET 6 R-73
14.0: N/A