Did I say that?
You didnt, that was more like me thinking out loud.
No it dosent you just posted it the f15A has 1.15 kd the f-14B has 1.03 kd so it does have a similar kd. aim54’s are good at taking out noobs out but that’s it rarely takes out skilled player (not that it should be a guaranteed kill) the aim54 isn’t all that good as you make it out be. until you actually own a said vehicle I don’t think you should be trying to argue that it doesn’t suffer/compete without actually having tried said vehicles first. On paper it may seem good but when it comes out to actually doing it can result in different results
Edit: I don’t think f14 should go down in br but a br de compression might be needed I think the f14A is fine where it is as the aim54A is a good learning curve to learn how to doge arh missiles
Where are you getting the 1.15 KD from?
you own neither Su-30MK2 nor MiG-29N, so you are either hypocrite or stupid. choice is yours.
Phoenixes and F90s are skillcheck missiles.They are easily avoidable… if you know how. Normal MP won’t work as many people think when you will most likely the missile will come from above. Even near-hits can kill you…
Notching, the same…going one way notching may or may not work. You should break pattern , even go cold , re-change directions … play with RWR , if you don’t have detailed or 360 you have to play around that ,slow rolls or point your RWR the direction the enemy most likely is , have a good view on the field where the missile comes from, be a bit more spread with friendlies…so you can catch what goes where or if it changed target to you (happens…you can make it happen as well ).
It’s not easy, but it is skillcheck . Once someone gets used to , most likely succeeds.
But when you figure the HORDE of premiums with players that don’t have a clue what the RWR even is…and that it doesn’t have 360 coverage …then yes it’s very easy to get above 1:1 . My IRIAF-14A was something like 1:3 towards grinding the missiles (played it when it became 13.0 ) , when i got F90s i went over 1:1 … when Rafale and EFT was 14.0 , someone could casually see them getting hit from F90s. After i recovered the KD/R , i stopped playing it… It’s not a good plane when your basis is ^the opponent’s mistake^ …
The planes KD/R in statshark… is produced by the hordes of premium lvl10 players , more than it is good plane.
Thee problem with the normal 14A and B is the IRIAF one. The BIG difference is that when IRIAF is in the game it will kill faster than you the same way you’d do. And if it’s a mirror (14svs14s ) and the other has IRIAFs they will outclass you in the same type of play.
F14D would be a good 13.0 AWG-9 is holding the F14 back right now and you can use the AIM-7P like a R27ER and TWS loft it while while using the AIM54s to force them defensive
I mean I usually get shot down by them whenever Im looking at phone instead of paying attention to the game lol. Im not arguing whenever Phoenixes is better than AMRAAM at usual combat distances. It isnt.
What I am arguing is that Phoenixes are niche long range missiles and as long as Tomcats play to their strengths they should be fine.
I will just quote my earlier comment as answer to this:
What I am getting at that despite 14B radar, despite not having IRCCM IRs, despite BOLs being weaker than standard CMs and despite Phoenix being worse than AMRAAM, it works better than F-15A in the same enviroment.
F-15A gets to farm those same premiums, with the same Sparrow Tomcat does. By all accounts if it wasnt for Phoenixes, F-15A would clearly be the better plane. So why its KD is significantly worse than 14B?
1 Like
I own the su33 witch have r27er and r73 and aim7p are not good a jousting against the r27er(or arh) in most occasions not to mention for a f14D that will be 13.3-13.7 you don’t need to actually have those jets to know that their gonna be better as everyone knew su30mk2 is a beast with its capabilities and mig29 being the counter part of f16 with the almost the same load out as the su30mk2 also you posted the stat card for 2025 is where I got those numbers
Also I miss read the stat card for f15c misp 2 and thought it was the f15A
You are directly contradicting yourself just few comments apart.
Why is it okay for you to deduce Su30SM2 performance from third party sources/opinions, but I cannot comment on performance of Tomcats based of global data as well as my experience playing against it?
Like I said everyone knew those planes where gonna be beast it’s not that hard to comprehend great missiles load out and good fm with good radar simply understanding that they gonna have a good advantage against most 13.0 planes. the f15A suffering is just in the same boat with f14B I’m not denying that witch is why most people try get the reworks for vehicles most people want to see not vehicles be artificially nerfed/model wrong
Explain why.
I divided the planes by function.
Theres no reason you need to fight an A-10 with your MiG-29, or go with a pure Sidewinder Carrier into 13.3.
The 12.0 BR is pure CBT as of now as far as I can see.
Like what is the point of moving stuff up, if you dont need to ?
You could also just put some thought into it and just use the empty BRs that have like 4 planes
Tornado, F111, Su24, A-10. That is 90% of the 11.7 BR (not counting the prems)
The difference is with these planes to their 10.7 counterparts are just the guided ground munitions and slightly better Fox2’s.
How viable are those guided bombs in ARB anyway?
Well i didnt just talk about my own personal experience here.
Personally i only bring like 20 chaff when flying the F14, i think i got the notching pretty well down.
But that dosnt make the CMs any better, it just means I adapted.
The issue here is, these stats dont actually tell us a lot, if we dont know which timeframe they are made up from.
You used to be able to just farm the F4S noobs in every game with all the F14’s, easily granting you 5-7 kills per game, which arnt that present anymore since Gaijin added top tier premium jets.
Compression dont really matter, if you compress planes that perform similarly in ARB.
You make it sound like im demanding the Rafale to go down or something.
Also kinda going past reality, the ViggenDI wont be doing BVR with its measly energy gain.
Like you said an Aim-7 launched a Mach 1.6 will be more deadly, than an aim-120 that’ll lose all its energy at the 15km mark already.
It was not to criticize the chart, I did my tests above without target velocity aswell, cause it dosnt matter. But to emphasize that you gotta do more in an actual game than to press a button in order for the missile to hit.
Just going sideways isnt notching.
And my amraams have definetly killed people already that were flying sideways and away from me without needing me to guide them in, but maybe im just that special.
Cant say the same about the Phoenix though.
Well it literally sais 10k at the bottom of your chart and the missile impacts a wee bit further. So i went by that.
How would I know that anyone just uses freedom units randomly.
But thats on me.
I couldnt recreate during testing, the amraam doing that 70° turn at the height of the loft.
Yeah, the alt difference was for testing the time-till-target; i did do the test at 30km aswell, as 37kms
I even did it with the same alt and the difference was only 3 seconds.
Still didnt look like your chart idk.
Yeah, i dont know if you understand, what I was getting at.
I wasnt trying to argue that the amraam is better at long range.
I was making a point, that shooting the Phoenix at long range dosnt actually make you fly any safer, because youre still getting into the WEZ regardless, especially if you wanna fire multiple missiles at the same time.
It is usually the case that planes with better kit sit at higher BRs. By moving planes down to meet planes with lower BRs and thus worse kit is bad because now the planes with worse kit will suffer whereas planes with better kit will stomp.
By having more BRs to move things around, you can place aircrafts not by their role, but by their actual performance, and can create actual divides, such as 12.0 Phantoms not having to see 13.0 legacy ARH carriers other than Tomcat; so on so forth.
Its hard to give a concrete example since you want to move bunch of stuff down at once which changes the dynamics a whole lot and honestly does not make a lick of sense; you are effectively torpedoing efforts of the entire community for the past few years to raise the max BR and decompress the game as a whole because…why exactly?
I will however highlight one specific example:
At 12.0, F-16A could meet MiG-21bis in full downtier. I remember when thatwas the case on F-16s release.
If you insist that this matchup would be fine, I invite you to test that assumption in custom battles.
what do you mean “dont need to” lol.
AESA Typhoons are sitting at the same BR as normal Typhoons. You cant exactly move the standard typhoons down to 14.0 because you would be, again, compressing.
Im almost afraid to ask what exactly would you put at 11.7.
This is absolutely anecdotal on your part.
If you bring more flares than chaff for BVR plane thats already an indication you have troubles with positioning and youre getting too close.
I beg your pardon?
I even stated outright that these were december 2025 data.
I sincerely do hope you are not trolling.
You might as well be asking for that, seeing that previous large scale compression you hinted at.
With each passing sentence of your response I am getting stronger feeling you are trolling.
Gripen A will never do a BVR with Skyflashes because these are 11.3 missile (since they are just DF sparrows just IRL with different seeker which does not affect how they act in game); and are by many people whos opinion I value to be terrible for a 12.0 UK Phantoms - letalone at 13.0 Gripen were talking about.
Thus what I said still stands - JA37Di is better BVR platform than Gripen A.
Do not misquote me. I said that even sparrow launched at mach 1.6 can be deadly, not that it will be more deadly than AMRAAM.
JA37Di is perfectly capable as 13.0 of reaching high speeds and alts neccesary for succesfull AMRAAM launches for.
That is if JA37Di actually bothers to climb and does not gimp itself by hugging the deck.
…and what is exactly notching then, if not keeping enemy radar source directly at your 90°?
That could have been IOG, if they dont change their flight path while in notch.
Camera issues.
Camera issues due to how much I zoomed in on the impact point.
Phoenix can be launched much earlier (at longer range) than AMRAAM, meaning that while F-14 guiding the Phoenix all the way in will get into enemy WEZ, the enemy can only launch AMRAAM on IOG and hope for the best; or risk getting smacked by Phoenix.
One flaw your previous assumptions had was
You dont have to fly directly at the enemy. You can keep guiding the missile keeping the target at the very edge of the radar gimbal limit. Its called cranking.
In case of Tomcats HDN radar, all you need is enemy coming towards your radar.
It’d be awful as I stated before.
You shouldn’t troll
1 Like
You are exaggerating the phoenix’s speed greatly, underplaying the amraam’s capability to accelerate faster, and assuming the amraam launcher also isn’t cranking
And also not even touching on the massive gap in ease to decoy lol
Not exaggerating Phoenix speed nor underplaying AMRAAMS acceleration. The long range of Phoenix comes from its sustainer, which is more powerfull than that of an AMRAAM.
According to this chart, at 20km mark, AMRAAM is going M0.95, whereas AIM-54C is going M1.63.
Thus I absolutely stand by all Ive said previously - Phoenix, and by extension Tomcat, has advantage in long range BVR joust against AMRAAM, solely by going on off missile performance.
AMRAAMs acceleration, as well as higher G pull, will come into play at shorter ranges.
Yes, for the purpose of this demonstration Im assuming no defensive manuevers take place. Nor Im looking at launching platform which will obviously be different from Tomcat since Tomcats we have in game cant carry AMRAAMs. Nor Im looking at differences in radars.
I merely wanted to demonstrate the range differences, thus all launches were simulated from 0kmh speed against 0kmh target.
I am aware, however if both targets crank and fire at similar times, the amraam is going to be in pitbull before the amraam user is forced to notch and lose datalink. And even if it doesn’t, which it should, the IOG will likely pick the F-14 back up anyway
11.7 XD
Anything is better than what is in game rn. 12.7 with r60s but 2 good missiles isnt fun at all vs 13.7 lobbies. Wouldnt mind if its rough with smooth, uptier/ down. But its not, you can play all night and not see 11.7.
Also f14a needs 9Ls. f14b 9Ms and keep current BRs, this is a no brainer.
current 12.7 state is superior to 12.3 with 6 R-60Ms
Think it needs to go lower. 12.3 with fox 1- not 27ers
Or 12.0/ 11.7 with just fox 3s
TBH the game is just funked. The jump from 12.7 to 13.0 is massive