F14 (except IRIAF) BR

[Xenisis]

@Beeschurger

Turning down the afterburner is something you should do no matter the jet, I had 9Ls force themselves through flares on many afterburning jets when fired from directly behind, not just Tomcat

Sidewinders are notorious for that; due to their smaller seeker-fov, flares tend to get deployed outside its view cone when within a certain range, but this mostly comes down to BOL placement on the plane.
Thats why i mentioned the R60’s first, 'cuz those usually can be 1-Flared, unless your engines are burning hotter than said flares.

@Beeschurger

Yet 14A at 12.7 has one undeniable advantage over other 12.7 planes - it has ARHs. While Phoenixes do not have the most pull and discussion can be had about their state, they are still ARHs, and F-14A is capable of guiding multiple Phoenixes at once.

Thats why Gaijin specifically raised all the ARH slingers to 13.0 a few updates ago and set it as a base line, iirc.
Which wasnt that great either for planes like the Harrier or the Viggen DI.
I could see those other trash ARH slingers going to the same BR, so the F14 wouldnt stand uncontested, and the ViggenDIs dont just get farmed on by F15 Strike Eagles.

@Beeschurger

Unlike other planes at its BR, it can attack multiple targets at once from afar, thus limiting its exposure thus decreasing the need for CMs in the first place.

At 13.0 (almost) everyone got Datalink and ARHs.
The Phoenix, as established earlier in the thread by someone else already, dosnt really have that much of a range advantage over AMRAAMS due to their lower speed.

That means you gotta keep the Datalink going way after already getting into mraam range,
meaning if you use the Long Range to fire all your missiles most of them will just miss unless someone is directly flying into them, since the missiles takes so long to get into terminal range, while a slight shift in your, or their positioning can cause the HDN to filter out your desired target.

@Beeschurger

I mean its gaijin were talking about and I havent heard about any major changes to PD HDN radars nor did I notice such change myself.

If there was a nerf, people would know.

I’ll guess i’ll have to get documenting that stuff for the bug forum.
I just noticed the chaff litter when coming back from the Christmas holidays. I havnt actually read about a nerf either.

@Beeschurger

With more space to go up you can decompress 9.0-11.0 as well.

You could also get the same result by just removing the .7 BRs from that range and make stuff either go up or down half a BR, depending on if theyre rank 6 or 7.
BR compression is only bad, because your trash fighters will seep into the Next Gen of Fighters and get absolutely godsmacked.

@Beeschurger

Yet you cant really have MiG-29G sitting at the same BR as Su-27/Su-33, or premium Su-30s at 13.3.

Hell MiG-29G shouldnt sit at the same BR as F-15A

But we gotta be Honest, basicly all MiG-29 are for no reason gimped beyond recognition, if its the Gs BR, or the 19-13 weapon Loadout or the 9-12 flight model. Gaijin just seems to hate them.

Its especially obvious since they made the conscious decision to move all ARH slingers to at least 13.0, but leave the G there aswell.

The Su-33 is at least just a SARH slinger.
But the Su-30MK2 has no justification to be at its BR, besides the fact that its a premium and i think everyone knows that.

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

@AlvisWisla

F-15A is slightly better than Su-27 in air RB

not neccessarily out of the most op 13.0s id say its the weakest of the OP bunch Both the SU-33 and SU-27 with TWS locking there R27ERs basically fox-3 them cause they have data link can easily run a match if it weren’t for the noobs flying them they would have absurd KDs its best for dogfighting with its 9Ms but even the JAS39A are better at the br for dogfighting

F15A BVR is also not the greatest due to only having the AIM-7M which is mid
and it only carrys 4 AIM-7M max and 4 AIM-9M

and SU33 gets of top my head 8 R27ERs and 6 R73s the SU27 only carrys 2 less of the R27ERs

so in RB id say both the SU27 and 33 are way better

[AlvisWisla]

TWS isn’t much of a benefit for air RB awareness as it is in sim, and it’s not as much of a benefit with SARHs as it is with ARHs due to hard-lock requirements.

Air RB prioritizes airframe and missiles in general, even if large matches reduce the airframe requirements a little.

It’s why I’m not mentioning the F-14’s radar being the worst of the BR [and the worst of 12.7].

F-2A is the best dogfighter at 13.0, Gripen 2nd, F-15A 3rd, F-14B is 4th, then you have Flankers.

“If it wasn’t for newer players playing F-15s and Su-27s they’d have absurd KDs.” is the correct statement.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Xenisis

If we were actually to get a 16.0 BR tomorrow, it be like 5 planes, and I really dont see the fun in reducing the match variety even further than it already is.

This is said so much and it has never made sense. You claim you don’t want decompression to this scale because of “variety”. Is it “variety” when one or a few aircraft dominate an entire BR due to compression causing other aircraft that COULD be played and interesting to rot and sit unplayed?

[Normandy_Corsair]

Do you just not understand what BR compression is?

[Normandy_Corsair]

@AlvisWisla

F-15A is slightly better than Su-27 in air RB and air sim.

Laughably incorrect

[Xenisis]

@Normandy Corsair

This is said so much and it has never made sense. You claim you don’t want decompression to this scale because of “variety”. Is it “variety” when one or a few aircraft dominate an entire BR due to compression causing other aircraft that COULD be played and interesting to rot and sit unplayed?

I dont actually see 1 Particular Plane dominating Top Tier right now, it used to be an issue with the F15 and then Eurofighter/Rafale, but since we got more planes with AESA this kinda evened out.

Only ones truly suffering at Top Tier rn are the F18s and M2Ks

[Beeschurger]

@Xenisis

Thats why i mentioned the R60’s first, 'cuz those usually can be 1-Flared, unless your engines are burning hotter than said flares.

nonetheless turning down the afterburner is something all aircrafts should do in case of missiles being launched directly from behind, regardless of engine temp, for good measure.

The niche % of cases where tomcat engine temp makes difference on their own does not warrant any BR adjustments when looking at the other parts of the Tomcats kit where it actually does hold an advantage.

@Xenisis

I could see those other trash ARH slingers going to the same BR, so the F14 wouldnt stand uncontested, and the ViggenDIs dont just get farmed on by F15 Strike Eagles.

as in, decreasing the BR of some of the legacy ARH slingers from 13.0 to 12.7?

@Xenisis

At 13.0 (almost) everyone got Datalink and ARHs.

My comment was aimed at F-14A and at its current 12.7 its the sole ARH carrier. My argument stands - unlike any other 12.7 it can attack multiple targets at once from afar, thus limiting its exposure, thus decreasing the need for CMs in the first place. Thus 60x CMs on F-14A is fine.

@Xenisis

The Phoenix, as established earlier in the thread by someone else already, dosnt really have that much of a range advantage over AMRAAMS due to their lower speed.

but at 12.7 they have that range advantage over Sparrows and only get contested by R-27ERs.

@Xenisis

At 13.0 (almost) everyone got Datalink and ARHs.

Sorry but thats just not true. At 13.0 (almost) everyone does not have ARHs. Going solely by airframes and presence (or lack of there of) of ARHs on it, completly overlooking number of battles played

non-ARH carriers:
F-15A
Su-27
Su-33
MiG-29G
F-15J
F-2A ADTW
J-11
Mirage 4K
F-16A (Belgium)
JAS-39A
Baz
for 11 airframes total.

ARH carriers:
AV-8B+
F-14B
F-14 IRIAF
F-4F ICE
Tornado F.3 late
Shar FA2
F-5TH TCU
J-8F
AV-8B+ (Italy)
JA37Di
JA37Di F21
Kfir C10
for 12 airframes total.

And thats not comparing actual battle presence which is dictated by number of played games, which goes something like this (games played in december 2025):
Su-33 1.5mil games
Su-27 404k games
F-15A 234k games
F-2A ADTW 766k games

F-14 IRIAF 581k games
F-14B 169k games
JA37Di F21 510k games
JA37Di 21k games

just for few examples. Even the premium JA37Di F21 is played less than premium F-2 ADTW, and premiums are much more accessible and thus played more, and despite JA37Di having AMRAAMs over F-2 ADTW.

Then along comes Su-33, a non-ARH carrier, that blows any 13.0 out of water with its sheer presence in games.

The rest of the ARH carriers have modest numbers of games played.

As for relevancy of datalink, sole missile that isnt ARH thats benefiting from datalink (or has one at all) is the R-27ER. 7M sparrows do not have datalink whatsoever.

@Xenisis

That means you gotta keep the Datalink going way after already getting into mraam range,

Solely to demonstrate time to target between Phoenix and AMRAAM and nothing else, at 30km range, if both missiles were fired from the stationary aircraft against stationary target 30 km away Phoenix impacts much earlier.

Of course there will be differences due to different airframes being able to imprint different initial speed and alt onto its launched missile, but solely missile talking, Phoenixes are fine for their indended role.

@Xenisis

I havnt actually read about a nerf either.

Dataminers would have noticed.

EDIT:
@Normandy_Corsair
The new statshark features might be handy in the future

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Xenisis

I dont actually see 1 Particular Plane dominating Top Tier right now

Decompression is not for top tier. Even so, compare a 14.0 hornet to a 14.3 Rafale/Su30SM2/Eurofighter AESA.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Xenisis

M2Ks

M2K 5F was the 2nd best jet in the game prior to the Su30Sm2 and Eurofighter AESA being added…

[Xenisis]

@Beeschurger

The niche % of cases where tomcat engine temp makes difference on their own does not warrant any BR adjustments when looking at the other parts of the Tomcats kit where it actually does hold an advantage.

Well, no, not on its own.

@Beeschurger

My comment was aimed at F-14A and at its current 12.7 its the sole ARH carrier. My argument stands - unlike any other 12.7 it can attack multiple targets at once from afar, thus limiting its exposure, thus decreasing the need for CMs in the first place. Thus 60x CMs on F-14A is fine.

I was arguing as if the other Planes would also go down along the F-14A

@Beeschurger

as in, decreasing the BR of some of the legacy ARH slingers from 13.0 to 12.7?

I still think the F14 isnt the only plane that could go down half a BR, to 12.7 without hurting anyone.
Attacking multiple targets also only really works if you’re within the 37km range, which does leave you with using a lot of CMs.

@Beeschurger

Sorry but thats just not true. At 13.0 (almost) everyone does not have ARHs. Going solely by airframes and presence (or lack of there of) of ARHs on it, completly overlooking number of battles played

So its actually close to a 50/50. I really didnt expect it to be that many on 13.0

@Beeschurger

just for few examples. Even the premium JA37Di F21 is played less than premium F-2 ADTW, and premiums are much more accessible and thus played more, and despite JA37Di having AMRAAMs over F-2 ADTW.

Which is something that could be fixed, by buffing these planes.
What point is there really to run the ViggenDI, besides liking the plane?
Its a very slow plane, that takes your time away from grinding the Grippen, without actually giving you any benefit over the Grippen in terms of gameplay.

@Beeschurger

Solely to demonstrate time to target between Phoenix and AMRAAM and nothing else, at 30km range, if both missiles were fired from the stationary aircraft against stationary target 30 km away Phoenix impacts much earlier.

The whole point I was trying to make, was that the F14 will have to be more aggressively guiding in the Phoenix, than an mraam slinger would need to.
So contrary to your example from the previous reply, is an F14 not just slinging its missiles at 37 or 60kms and then just turn around for Base, even if he could technically do it with the Phoenix, he won’t get any more than a single frag like that.

Also: Im pretty sure the Phoenix was only faster than the amraam in your demonstration because, the launch vehicle was stationary.
The aim-120A cant reach its top speed, from 0-Velocity, with only 2 seconds of boost time.
The Phoenix burns for up to 30 seconds, while needing at least 20 seconds to reach its top speed.
Thats probably why the blue line goes more straight towards the target after the initial loft.

@Beeschurger

Then along comes Su-33, a non-ARH carrier, that blows any 13.0 out of water with its sheer presence in games.

It is the best Squadron/Free Vehicle afterall. Not surprising it turns out to be the most used one aswell.

@Beeschurger

As for relevancy of datalink, sole missile that isnt ARH thats benefiting from datalink (or has one at all) is the R-27ER.

[tokerstar]

Same here. Too many cope vics becaise they have a missile that was good 3 yesrs ago or whatever. The power creep is crazy RN.

Mig29 12.3 with r60s only would also be great

[WhiteShrimpy]

I think the F14 should be nerfed 👍

[Beeschurger]

@Xenisis

I was arguing as if the other Planes would also go down along the F-14A

but what planes exactly? that needs to be commented on by case to case basis.

@Xenisis

I still think the F14 isnt the only plane that could go down half a BR, to 12.7 without hurting anyone.

again, which planes would these be?

@Xenisis

Attacking multiple targets also only really works if you’re within the 37km range, which does leave you with using a lot of CMs.

how so?

Im running 20 flares/40 chaff on 18C early and I rarely run out of chaff doing BVR, and that plane does not have ARH missile.

Even Su-33 with only 48 LCMs is more than fine at 13.0 as BVR platform.

@Xenisis

I really didnt expect it to be that many on 13.0

The legacy ARH carriers are called legacy for a reason. Ive recently took to spading F-15A and the FM leaves many of the 13.0 ARH slingers in the dust. Same with Su-33.

In fact I like F-15A more than KWS, because unlike KWS I can actually get within good launch position and fire the sparrow while going mach 1.6 - and sparrow that starts at mach 1.6 is actually quite deadly.

@Xenisis

Which is something that could be fixed, by buffing these planes.

and why such “buff” must come in form of downtiering legacy ARH carriers to BR where they fight planes they have no business fighting, instead of, i dont know, raising the max BR and moving the top tier planes further away from legacy ARH carriers?

@Xenisis

What point is there really to run the ViggenDI, besides liking the plane?

same reason why i sometime go play KWS. Its a 13.0 with AMRAAMs, it doesnt have to constantly partake in the clown fiesta that is Rafale + MICA

@Xenisis

without actually giving you any benefit over the Grippen in terms of gameplay.

the benefit comes from pool of enemies it can face. Gripen C has to fight AESA Typhoons, Rafales and Su-30SM2s occasionally; JA37Di does not.

You will probably counter by saying that JA37Di has to occasionaly fight F-15E and such, to which I will refer to my previous point - why not decompress and move such aircrafts away from legacy ARH carriers?

@Xenisis

The whole point I was trying to make, was that the F14 will have to be more aggressively guiding in the Phoenix, than an mraam slinger would need to.

but weve already estabilished in my previous post by the statshark chart that Phoenix has better long range fligh characteristics than AMRAAMs. Tomcat does not have to guide them as aggressively since Tomcat does not have to get as close.

@Xenisis

an F14 not just slinging its missiles at 37 or 60kms and then just turn around for Base, even if he could technically do it with the Phoenix, he won’t get any more than a single frag like that.

but AMRAAM carrier has to also guide in the missiles with help of TWS otherwise it will achieve exactly that - nothing.

@Xenisis

Also: Im pretty sure the Phoenix was only faster than the amraam in your demonstration because, the launch vehicle was stationary.

Same conditions except both missiles were launched by plane going 1200kmh, AIM-54A impacted 4 seconds earlier than AMRAAM. 47.3s vs 51.5s.

@Xenisis

Thats probably why the blue line goes more straight towards the target after the initial loft

Both launcher and target are at the same alt. Target is stationary. In both cases (stationary launch vs 1200kmh launch, the AIM54A having more flat trajectory is due to simply having smaller loft.

[WhiteShrimpy]

[Beeschurger]

[Wilbertheaverage]

Unfortunately people STILL haven’t learnt that AIM-54 tracking falls apart when you fly away from it.

They can still find you if you’re not quite notching at <90° but if you go >90° they will just fail.

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

BVR is still a thing you know at these brs and TWS isnt for just searching its also tracking allowing you to hard lock with your radar at crazy ranges something the F15A cant do which is a massive disadvantage unless that F15 can get close it wont win purely due to the lack of performance From AIM-7M

F15A has a higher skill sealing than the point and click play style of the SU33/27 as you actually got to know how to dogfight and aim in it and your missiles are worse at certain times like any time there not flying in a straight line

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

premium noobs and notching yeah that will never happen

[AlvisWisla]

TWS doesn’t extend the range of locking.
F-15A is the easiest among the aircraft to learn.

It doesn’t require you to have center radar controls, it doesn’t require you to learn energy management as much as an Su-27.
F-18 has a higher skill ceiling than Su-27s, but Su-27s are higher than the F-15A.