the F-4J fights all of these. The F-16A (12.3) is limited to IR only too. the F-4EJ Kai is 12.3, no excuse for F3
More accurately
The ADV should be stronger defensively. With the current state of BOL… It barely is. If at all.
With full strength or even just old BOL, the F3 could probably be 12.3. Let alone also adding on 1-2x Phimat pods for 216 large chaff each ontop of that BOL loadout.
Though Id be hesitant about F3 being the same BR as the F-18 which will probably still win in most 1v1 fights as the fight would probably eventually end up in WVR and the F-18 will almost always win the gun fight.
its still a lot better than 60 small CM
Small CMs?
It has 60 BOL?
what are you coping about, im talking about the regular (small) countermeasures, it doesnt have big ones
32 large countermeasures is already arguably better than 60 small. add 320 BOL and its signficantly better
and now compare FMs…
Even the F-4 runs rings around the F3.
Let alone the F-18 and F-16.
The Trade off should be 0 dogfighting potentially for 32 LCMs + 320 BOL which sould be equivalent to large flares or standard chaff and then potentially on top of that 216-432 large calibre chaff.
It is not.
BOL barely works half the time.
I partially agree with this, but I can’t support it until the F/A-18 problem is solved.
Being the same BR with EJ Kai feels fine
But being the same BR with 18A, 2000CS4, or 21bison does not feel fine.
Anyway
@quartas121, @Morvran .
I hope we all three don’t take too long about the Tonka discussion in the F-4J topic.
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Avionics suite of Tornado indeed is better. Top speed… i dunno, but i played ADV quite a bit and unless you are commited to only flying in a straight line - you ain’t gonna run away from anyone. And yes, it does have 9L. Probably a legacy of gaijin amazing balancing skills, Tornado flight model was akin to most maneuverable battleships of Royal Navy, so 9L was probably a way to help it actually line up the shots. Nowadays, if top tier wasn’t compressed to all hell, ADV and F.3 could probably get a 0.3 br increase, maybe even 0.7.
vs F-4s, F-16s, Just barely (and way slower than the Mig-29) though with the FM overhaul we got last year, we lost a notable chunk of our IRL top speed due to “game limiations” which is really annoying, with that we would probably be faster by enough to be okay, these days… How much fuel is in the tank makes a huge difference and we burn through a lot of fuel and so bring a lot of fuel.
Though the Tonka is designed for sea level (being originally an interdictor) and doesnt really like alt all that much, though that is best place to be due to MP. Up higher… F-4 probably is near enough equal
Id instantly begin advocating for 12.3 the moment they fix BOL. Though they definetly need to decompress 12.0-13.0 because most of what is at 13.0 and even some at 12.7, shouldnt be seen by the 12.0s.
Id place the current Tornado F3 somewhere between the F-4S and the F-4EJ Kai, but the F-4S is not far behind.
no sense in any of your arguments but OK for you
evidence in real game time in how F-4J/S perform in that BR.
And you giving any possible excuse because you like Phantoms? okay you like them but that does not mean it is well placed and its current ordnance works at 12.0
Wow, now I become arrogant…
You are the arrogant here
What with them? they barely equal to R-24R, weaker than R-27R.
AIM-7Fs are pretty easy to evade since you seem to forget that all depends in the radar that the plane has. Maybe I need to make a record in how the radar of F-4J works, it doesn’t work as in MiG-29s, sometimes the radar of the F-4J with all of HMS takes time to track the target, and it cannot track target at ±90° - 180°.
Is like giving R-27ERs to a MiG-23M (the first Flogger), R-27ER being the strongest SARH in-game it won’t do a thing with that poor radar that MiG-23M has. IS AN EXAMPLE
I got a B2 Certification, are you mad? how many languages can you speak?
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I think this is my line, not yours.
It is well placed and the current ordnance is fine.
It just doesn’t work because of goddamn compression.
Sending F-4J lower to 11.7 while maintaining 7F or giving AIM-9L is nothing but an insane idea.
Do you really think F-4J needs 0.4BR higher than F-4E?
You are pushing the most delusional ideas to make the best 12.0BR jet (which suffers because of the BR system) as an overpowered and unstoppable jet at 11.7BR in downtier.
You don’t need to. F-4J/S’s radar is one of the earliest PDV radars in the game. How in the earth would it work like MiG-29’s one?
If it worked solid like F-4EJ Kai does, your F-4J/S would’ve be 12.3BR even without AIM-9L :P
Too sad that your B2 Cert granted how you read English, but didn’t automatically guarantee how to understand English. (/s)
It seems you wasted your time for getting that certification.
Oh, yes. I can claim that I am mad. If it makes you happy.
If I weren’t mad, I wouldn’t be yelling at the wall like this.
Show me a 12.0 or below aircraft that can have more than 2 R-24 or R-27 missiles.
Why are you comparing a 12.0 aircraft radar to a 12.7 one? Compare it to other 12.0s like Mirage F1, or Tornado.
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I got a video of how average and below being good is AIM-7F, I’m gonna upload it to YT and share it to you.
+0.4? wasn’t 0.3?
Honestly F-4E should be 11.0 as F-4EJ
Lol I get it, you love Phantoms, but tag is a best 12.0? yeah best in being useless.
There are not many 12.0, F-4J/S are just better than F-104S ASA
yeah, not the worst, just better than F-104s, poor pencil players…
OMG that line, you magnifying AIM-7F but now you say that F-4J does not need the radar xD
Since you are putting the HMS of F-4J as one of the strongest features in F-4J, it seems proper to compare it with one closest to F-4J BR
Is not like that, is because you arrogant arguments makes me bore and makes me lose interest in keep reading, but I could speak my native language so I do not have to waste effort in trying to convinve a boy in its language.
Well, he cries about the HMS feature of F-4J/S is too OP and it prohibits F-4J the possibility to lower its BR and for that reason I cannot compare to Mirage F1s Radar, since Mirage F1s and Tornados do not have HMS feature; but I already told him that MiG-23 MLD/ML radar is better.
I compare it to MiG-29s radar 'cause is the closes aircraft to its BR (12.0 - 12-7) to have HMS as far as I know.
Sapphire 23 has smaller scan area (60x6 vs 120x8), less range (30km limit at low altitude or in MTI mode), less ACM range (10km vs 19km). It can’t use MTI at high altitude or even if enemy doesn’t have a terrain surface behind it. So please tell me, in what way is Sapphire 23 better than AN/APG-59?
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AIM-7F at work.
Peak SARH of course; it is a FOX-1 that will brake the poor balance of 11.7…
That MiG-29 didn’t even made evasive maneuvers he just deploy some chaffs and evade the ALL SO POWERFUL AND MIGHTY AIM-7F!!!
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try not firing last second head on sparrows
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Yeah sure…
AIM-7F will be an inconvenience if F-4J goes down to 11.7 (Note the sarcasm)
Never had a problem when trying to lock the target, I score hits at high alttitude without problems in ranges between 5 km - 25 km, with ACM I can track targets fast an easy in head-on and at low altittude.
While with F-4J radar it tracks so slow, with HMS-PDV-HDN is really difficult to track enemies when they are in certain angles; with solo HMS it track slightly better, but it lose the target so easy.
MiG-23 MLD is one of my favorite planes and you will never hear a complain of me about that plane.
If the F-4J had performed effectively in battle, this post would not exist.
in use and experience.