I would argue that F-4J / JAS-39A matchup was a lot more favorable then MiG-21 / F-14.
Simply because F-4J has better BVR options, in the form of AIM-7E-2 and AIM-7F radar guided missiles. Compare that to RB71 (Skyflash) and you will see that it has rather good chances.
On the other hand MiG-21 has no BVR options, and F-14 is superior in dogfighting capability, too.
I didn’t answer because it’s partially pointless - they are often on the same team.
But, if you would like to compare them, then the result would be similar to F-4J / JAS-39A matchup.
On one side you have F-4J with six AIM-7E-2 or AIM-7F radar guided missiles, while on the other side F-16A ADF has only two AIM-7M.
And that would mean that, although F-4J is at an disadvantage in dogfight (against both JAS-39A and F-16A ADF), it still has rather good chances of victory in BVR.
Bro hasn’t played any of the top tier or near top tier planes. It’s always mirror matches.
Bruh. I swear yall hear that the MiG-21 has bad energy retention and immediately think that means its the worst dogfighter in the game. It’s not. You just need to play around that AOA and energy retention.
Ok now what about the fact that it has a front aspect radar and can be notched without even using chaff IIRC? What about the fact that the AIM-7E-2 isn’t even good past a close range headon? What about the fact that the radar is finnicky and probably wont even acquire a lock? The JAS-39 has a crazy amount of chaff and flares, which none of the F-4J’s missiles will have a good time against.
And of course I know there are always matches where US aircraft are on both teams.
And do you know why?
Because everyone has figured out that US has an overwhelming advantage in Air RB at top rank, so everyone is playing them.
And it all started with F-14s.
I still remember when F-14s were added two years ago, and the waiting queue was 200-250 players in the US aircraft, while other nations had something like 10-15 players each in waiting queue.
I didn’t “hear that”.
I played the MiG-21s myself.
And I didn’t say it was the worst dogfighter in the game.
But they are some of the most unforgiving dogfighters in the game (like most delta-wing aircraft).
And there is no “play around that AOA and energy retention”. The moment you start turning in MiG-21 you instantly become easy target for missiles and “third party” enemy.
For a MiG-21 pilot to have any hope of success, he has to search for isolated enemies, which he can engage on he’s own terms. But that is extremely rare in 16 vs 16 teams.
So now we have chaff on JAS-39A, but when I was asking what chances does MiG-21 have against F-14s, you all jumped on R-60 missiles - like F-14 is not an aircraft with enormous amount of flares.
Whether you like it or not, F-4J has more options against JAS-39A / F-16A, then MiG-21 against F-14s.
It doesn’t mean that F-4J is on equal footing as F-16A, but that F-14 has an really low BR, for all the things it brings.
“There is no ‘play around it’ because if you play it the OBJECTIVE wrong way, you die” Great take, brother. ALSO, EVERYONE in a furball or extended dogfight is an easy missile target, so whats your point dude?
You mean phoenixes. That’s the only thing it really brings.
You’re complaining that the F-14A sees the MiG-21bis. Adding an F-14 to Russia or Japan won’t change anything. The MiG-21 will still see the F-14, the thing you’ve been complaining about.
I don’t understand how giving other nations F-14s would solve your issue lol.
Well you see, tobarisch; if Russia gets an F-14, they can “stick it to those american dogs”!
This discussion was never about balance, this guy just wants to go “haha now your unicorn plane isnt so special anymore how do you like those apples” in an IRIAF Tomcat.
Actually, whether it’s one circle, or two circle dogfight, it does not matter.
What is important, is the fact that it is a delta-wing design.
Characteristic of delta-wing is the ability to achieve higher speeds, faster - due to less aerodynamic drag (because of smaller wing surface).
But this comes at a cost.
As soon as you start turning, that same wing starts acting as a giant air brake, and you start to lose speed fast.
Whilst this is common with delta-wing designs, that have a decent engine (because, as I stated above, lower wing drag of delta-wing aircrafts), it’s not very useful in an actual dogfight.
Once you bleed your airspeed, it takes time to speed up, even for aircraft with good acceleration.
And enemy is not going to simply wait for you to pick up your speed.
It’s not the MiG-21 that is in a position to dictate that fight.
As I stated previously, F-14 is faster, and can simply choose to run away if it so wished.
Secondly, F-14 has a great sustained turn, which cannot be said for MiG-21.
MiG-21 was made to do one thing - go straight fast.
Additionally, it’s delta-wing and lightweight design, allow it to perform a strong turn - but only one turn.
Turning in a MiG-21 looks like this:
you are flying at 1300 km/h
you decide to do a sharp turn, and in the first 180° you lose half of your speed
if you continue to turn, those ~ 700 km/h quickly turn to 400 km/h by the time you complete a full (360°) turn
you can keep turning, but your airspeed is going to go around 300 - 400 km/h, and your turning curve will be wide
only reason why you will be able to stay at those speeds, is because of the engine power, that will keep you hangings in the air, but unable to turn effectively or pick up speed
So in the end, MiG-21 has one ace up it’s sleeve, and that is that strong first turn.
If the pilot can deal with the enemy in that short time window, then great. Otherwise, having lost almost all of your initial speed - you are as good as dead.
That is why MiG-21s are unforgiving to inexperienced pilots. Sure you can move fast on a straight line, and make one solid turn, but if you made an error in judgement, then you will pay for it.
Brother its an entire BR lower. Its not uncommon for an aircraft an entire BR above another to club the other. Take a look at the MiG-29SMT vs F-14A. The SMT has vastly superior missiles and an actual usable Fox 3 paired with an all aspect PD radar. Or even the MiG-29G which is a 0.7BR above the F-14A, it has R-73s, R-27ERs, and all aspect PD.
R-60 missile has the second worst range (after SRAAM), so I don’t understand your point.
It does matter.
One of the characteristics of it’s seeker head is that is has a lot more narrow FOV then R-60 seeker. That means that once the missile locks it’s target, it’s harder to disrupt it’s targeting, unless some other heat source crosses across that narrow FOV.
That is one of the reasons why R-60 is considered unreliable. It’s seeker FOV is so wide that it covers both the targeted aircraft, and it’s surroundings. Because of this, R-60 has the tendency to follow flares, fired rockets and missiles, sun, friendly aircraft and other.
Sometimes it looks like it would follow anything else, other then it’s intended target.
And this feature also makes R-60 the prime teamkilling missile. It is simply so easy to distract it’s seeker head.
Same applies to R-60.
Once it was known as a good dogfighting missile, but that was long ago. One year ago there were changes in aerodynamic drag on missiles, and R-60 was the biggest loser of that update.
Nowadays, only good thing about R-60 is that it is better then R-3S.
