True dude
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This is the reason why the F-104S and most 11.0BR aircraft are suffering in current meta.
And that is mainly due to the horrible matchmaker and BR compression in Jet RB match, NOT the unjustifiably high BR of the F-104S.
BTW, I’ve heard F-104J that doesn’t have CMs will get x6 AIM-9Ps in next update. It will be very interesting to see how that will work with the current Jet RB because F-104S was 10.7BR when they didn’t have CMs.
It is also the br of that plane because you can move up all the 11.3 planes to 12.0 and the issue of the 104s will remain
is an inflexible plane with a single selling point (speed) and limited option of weapons that will still face planes that are better in every single aspect and that are armed with all aspect/radar missile that you can’t deal with
To take things in prospective, i feel like the F-104S have the maus issue
You can’t really move it down because it can be too strong but you can’t also keep it like this because is unplayable even against some same br planes
Recently got the F-104S TAF and its easily my worst vehicle without a doubt, my Tornado GR.1 is something I’d prefer to play and I already dislike that vehicle in anything but Ground RB, this thing being at the same BR as the J-7E is absolutely criminal.
I’ve recently gotten Top Tier Italy Ground and wanted something to complement it, I already had Helicopters and the last thing to get was Air. I’d like to see myself as someone who’s good at Air RB, the only option to grind Air Italy was the F-104S and I wasn’t interested in waiting 10 years to receive more shi# so I decided to purchase it today.
After couple matches I made the conclusion this thing is in dire need of the AIM-9P4 or a BR decrease, this thing at 11.0 will be sucked up to constant uptiers which is unbearable, many vehicles like the smooth brain F-20A warriors will see you, lock onto you with extreme tunnel vision, out speed you and slaughter you without more than 2 IQ being put into it.
After I’m done with Italian Air I’m going to attend therapy to help heal me from this disgusting monstrosity
I should also mention ABSOLUTELY NO F-104 should be fighting a F-16
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Completely agree, i got it to grind Italy and is by far the worst plane i’ve played, playing a biplane at 11.0 would likely be more entertaining.
6 AIM-9P at 11.0, literally no turning capability on 11.0 and most planes at this BR range have similar speed to you.
If you climb to boom and zoom which is the only thing this thing is good at, you will get immediatly killed by AIM-7Fs or Phoenixes, if you try to bomb bases flying low you will most of the time get killed by someone whith All-aspect missiles coming the opossite way, which are fairly common at this BR, or a F4 will beat you to the base and get the base with rockets before you can drop your bombs.
I will repeat again: Literally a non-turning aircraft with decent speed and rear-aspect missiles at 11.0 against an entire BR range with radar and all-aspect missiles.
I started writting my matches on it for the last week, and here it is: 42 games, of which 34 were full uptiers to 12.0 against F16, Mig 29, F20 and F14B. (80.9% of 1.0+ uptier matches).
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The F-104S variants shouldnt be 11.0, I agree they should be 10.7 or 10.3 because they have a soft lock speed at 1.4 Mach which they cannot surpass spaded or non without wing ripping. The AIM-9Js and Bs are rear aspect ONLY and never hit their targets because of their flare hungriness. Aim 9js and Ps dont have good manuverability nor do they have good flare resistance. Also if you seriously think it has Aim-7E2s then you are absolutely high, it has Aim-7E1s and NO PD. 99% OF THE TIME NO MATTER THE RANGE OR ALTITUDE YOU LAUNCH THE HORRIBLY SLOW AND UN-MANUVERABLE MISSILE. IT. WILL. GO. STRAIGH. INTO. THE. GROUND!!!. F-104S HAS NO VERSATILE ATTRIBUTES SINCE IT HAS THE WORST POSSIBLE MISSILES FROM 10.0 TO 12.7 WITH THE WORST MANUVERABILITY OUT OF ALL JETS IN THE GAME, COMBINED WITH ONLY GOING AGAINST PD RADARS, JETS THAT CAN COBRA AND OUT RUN YOU AND THE FACT THAT YOU WILL GET UPTIERED TO 12.0 60%OF THE TIME
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Ask F-104G(Germany) that is really fine at its BR
Let’s compare it with the (fighter) competition!
F-4E/EJ/Kurnass: 4xAIM-9J + 4xAIM-7E-2 (without having to sacrifice its gun), 90 flares, even more CAS options, somewhat slower, better maneuverability
MiG-21bis (all variants): Faster on the deck, 6xall aspect missiles, less ammunition, much better maneuverability, equivalent countermeasures, much worse CAS options
MiG-23M/MF: Also faster on the deck, 6xall aspect missiles or 4xall aspect and 2 relatively good radar missiles with PD, very low CM count, much worse CAS options, better maneuverability
J-8B: Unsure, would be nice if someone could fill in
JA37: Sometimes capable of catching it, haven’t gotten any good experience fighting it, 0 useful CAS, equivalent missile count with the exception of doppler radar (while keeping its gun), somewhat less countermeasures, better maneuverability
Take this as you wish
Addendum 1: The Radar Warning Receiver or the F-104S is incapable of picking up the J-band, and therefore both the Sapfir-21 (MiG-21) and Sapfir-23D/TP-23 (MiG-23) are invisible.
IMO It is pretty close to the MiG-21s flight models.
It still turns but, it bleed speeds on first few circles so, I don’t think they are good as J-7E.
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Tell It to the italian F-104G wich Is the same but with half of the missiles at the same BR
You are not the One Who can do whataboutism
IMO F-104G(Italy) can go 10.3BR in ARB because of its loadouts. It would be decent counterpart of F-8E.
As long as the FMs are same, the Italian one should not share the same BR with the F-104G (Germany), but as long as the German one is quite decent right now so, it is almost impossible for the F-104S to change its BR.
BTW, You have never played German 104G
I have played both the 104S and Italian 104G
And like i have written too many times the 104S Is unplayable at that br and for Italy Is the only premium Plane you can have
Meanwhile germany have 2 of them
I will rather play the AMX than the 104S Taf in Air realistic battle
I have played German and Italian F-104G and F-104S on TT.
Problem is 12.0/11.7BR is one of popular BR in ARB rn so, 11.0BR usaually suck to BR black holes.
Unfortunately, the BR black hole has been a problem at other BRs for years and is impossible to fix without fundamental changes to the matchmaker.
As a duct-tape solution, decompression might work because of the 11.0BR, but as you know, Gaijin is reluctant to decompress, so I am not sure if it will happen.
If 11.0BR is decompressed to x2 BRs, I guess F-104S would have same BR with thoses.
- F-104S
- F-4EJ/EJ ADTW
- Tornado IDS
- J-7D(also probably, J-8B?)
This will change nothing
Did you realize that even most of the 11.3 planes are far too strong?
you can bring 11.3 plane at 12.0 and nothing will change
you will still face those plane in a brick stuck with rear aspect missiles
now compare the tornado ADV with the TAF, the difference is a 0.3 br
While they are certainly better, they are not so far better that a kill is almost impossible.
MiG-23ML/MLA/MLD would be problem but, they would gets huge flight model nerf so, It should be a little easier to deal with than it is now. Also, I think current 11.3BR AIM-7 carriers are not good as few years ago because current DF sparrows and AIM-7Fs are inconsistent for somehow.
That is one of BR compression problem.
Everything you call “not good” is still far better than the 104S for the sole reason that their radar can actually lock on something. With the S/Taf not only you have to give up you gun but you also get can’t lock on shit.
You ofter complain about german suffering for the 104G but at least the lazur M have 6 all aspect missiles at the same at the same br of the 104S/TAF
While they are certainly better, they are not so far better that a kill is almost impossible."
the joke of the year
Even if someone locks you with PD radar, if you are on deck, even if they shoot a Sparrow, it will not work and just pancake to the ground. It is pretty close to the current 12.7BR playstyle.
Which also suffers against most 12.0/11.7s…
Not only the F-104S, but most 11.0 aircraft suffer, with the exception of the J-7E.
Says the dude who has negative KD on most jets.
While it is true that the F-104S (and its other 11.0s) are suffering but, it is not as bad as you think.
I guess you have really bad experience for jets because you skipped to ways to learn how to play Jet RB match as buying Rank VII premiums.
What are you smoking? The JA-37 only gets 2 SARH missiles, you can call them “All Aspect” but that’s it…
The F-104 out-accelerates almost every aircraft at 10.7, and has flares to flare off IR missiles. Not to mention the JA37 is about to get a massive nerf to its turn rate. Reason you have to sacrifice your guns for radar missiles is because of the advanced computers required to operate them.
Generally speaking, absolutely not, vastly speaking, we need decompression anyway.
Oh they would gets as well?
You can post the reports because I confused to J35s?
They chocked up the J35 math to be bullshit, same with the JA37, but then changed their minds on it. It will be changed next major update. Effectively ruining my favorite aircraft in the game, also probably resulting them to having a lower BR.
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