In absolute worst case scenario of F-104 being super cautious, it is effective. 90% of the time however, you can just shoot em down.
Refer to my last message
It is infact an effective counter. If you’re struggling against F-104s then that’s seriously on you.
@Normandy_Corsair, Weren’t Gaijin changed AF SPAA from Roland to ITO 90M?
(I don’t have a specific BR, which it changed from Roland to Crotalle)
Even if Pangolin_Fan’s take is right that AF Strafe were effective counter when SPAA were Roland for arguing’s sake.
Is it still viable after SPAA change to Crotale if we consider we are forced to AF Strafe with subsonics?
In your theory,
If you’re struggling to make the enemy suffer by using F-104s, then that’s seriously on you.
Really poor argument.
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Well, technically if you’re struggling to make the enemy suffer with pretty much any plane in the game, then yeah that’s a skill issue and you should just be the best player in the game.
This issue is your average player can easily counter an F-104, however your average player cannot make the enemy team struggle.
The poor argument is you complaining that the F-104 is OP.
yes but I also do not know when ITOs show up
his theory doesnt work even if it was only rolands as his strategy assumes you yourself have enough fuel/ammo and aren’t being harassed by ANY other plane to be able to strafe a roland airfield
You have nothing to say, that’s good.
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Pretty ironic for you to say when your entire argument has been just complaining that fighting the F-104 is too hard.
You have reading comprehension issues if that is what you think I’ve said.
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Yep compression made everyone suffer. Next!
Lightning has horrible guns with an ammo count that doesn’t allow generous spraying, like the F-104. The lightning only has good speed at altitude. On the deck, it rips slightly above M1 and does not have exceptional acceleration like the F-104. It is fat, has practically no flaps, and can barely out-maneuver an AIM9B.
MiG-19/21S comparison is straight false, although these aircraft are also incredibly unfair in the 8.0 range.
If you ever manage to IR AAM an F-104, it’s because you either used a high-pull missile from an awkard AOA(which don’t exist at the 8.0 range), or he tried to dogfight. If he tried to dogfight, he was dead whether you had an AAM or not, either because he gets lit aflame, or his aircraft stalls into the ground.
You completely ignored or misunderstood the point of the post. Facing the F-104’s sub-9.0 is an absolutely horrific gameplay experience. You also immediately leaped to the conclusion that I called them OP - which I didn’t. I said these aircraft stall out games and overperform relative to the amount of skill required; and no, knowing not to dogfight in the single worst dogfighter in the game is not ‘skill’.
Being able to survive against an F-104 in a standard scenario is not the problem. The problem is that these aircraft, except in cases of immense user error, are untouchable. There is no interactivity to be had when an F-104 decides to be salty and stall out a clearly lost game by either spaceclimbing or out-speeding you on the deck for the remaining 20 minutes. There’s nothing fun about not being able to land on your own airfield with 4 seconds of fuel left because said game-stalling F-104 simply stared you down until you needed to land, and there’s no fun only being able to kill an aicraft if it’s landed on the airfield - which half of the time is map-permitting anyway.
The answer, the same for many problems the game faces, is decompression - especially in this BR bracket. We know that will not happen, and as a result I would rather not have these aircraft creating an egregiously boring and anti-competitive experience in 8.3-9.0 jet matches.
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Yes and yes
Have we forgot about the Soviet Su-7B going as fast as the F-104? It can defintely win a dogfight against an F-104. And also I am very sure the Su-7B is faster then the f-104 aswell…
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It may in fact be an issue if Su-7 players did not simply suicide rush/bomb bases at the start of every match. I have never seen an Su-7 survive past 2 minutes.
What most SU-7 Player does is just bombing lot of them never try to dogfight even when they are better in almost every way. And since it BR got low down to 9.0 it just make thing easier for them now.