They’re not just faster than you, they’re ridiculously faster than you. Regardless of combat effectiveness, some airframes simply shouldn’t be allowed at certain battle ratings. Even a handless F-104 player knows not to dogfight in it - in which case it’s unstoppable. The only time you beat an F-104 is if the pilot is an absolute imbecile. Ultimately, there is nothing you can do at 8.3-9.3 about a plane that goes from 0-M1 on the deck in 2 seconds. It’s armed with a Vulcan, so it doesn’t need to really maneuver/bleed speed to get its gun on target - just send a multi-second burst from a distance and something will hit.
These things just make you roll your eyes as they stall out 1v8 games with a 270m/s climb rate and ridiculous top speed that not a single other aircraft at 8.3-9.3 can touch. If said F-104 pilot is not a shit for brains, the only time you can kill one is when it’s rearming on the airfield.
I have never in my life had less fun playing ARB than dealing with these things. I understand ridiculous speed and climb is the only thing they can do, but being able to see 8.3 and even 9.3 is ridiculous. I would rather these things be overtiered than undertiered.
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“F-104 is OP” mfs before they discover the power of slightly turning:
It’s not even the fastest 9.3. Lightnings, F-106s, and MiG-19/21s eat F-104s for breakfast. Not to mention the multitude of aircraft with AIM-9G, AIM-9P, AIM-9J, R-60, etc. at the 9.3/9.7, even 9.0.
Complaining about not being able to outrun an F-104 is like complaining about not being able to outturn a Zero. Just don’t try to compete with the aircrafts’ primary strength and they cannot hurt you.
And to clarify, I don’t believe that the F-104 needs to go down in BR. I think it is perfectly placed at 9.3, and if there is decompression of the BR then of course it should go up- the mix of subsonics and supersonics at 9.3 is a mess.
~8.0-10.0 is one of the most compressed BR ranges in the game but the F-104s are some of the least egregious examples. I mean, just at 9.7 you suddenly get T-2s with AIM-9P, MiG-21S with R-3R and exceptional flight performance, SRAAMs, and at 10.0 (where often “F-104 is OP” claims aim to send the F-104A) there’s Magics. Try doing literally anything against a Mirage in the flying lawn dart.
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then what about 8.3 jets? what are they going to do?
Most, still just a split-S or roll and be fine. Lob an AIM-9B after the F-104. But mostly suffer.
I certainly won’t deny that ~8.0-10.0 is one of the most compressed BR ranges in the game but the F-104s are some of the least egregious examples. I mean, just at 9.7 you suddenly get T-2s with AIM-9P, MiG-21S with R-3R and exceptional flight performance, SRAAMs, and at 10.0 (where often “F-104 is OP” claims aim to send the F-104A) there’s Magics. Try doing literally anything against a Mirage in the flying lawn dart.
And to clarify, I don’t believe that the F-104 needs to go down in BR. I think it is perfectly placed at 9.3, and if there is decompression of the BR then of course it should go up- the mix of subsonics and supersonics at 9.3 is a mess.
Lightning isnt faster than an F-104. The F-104 will just about outrun the Lightning
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They have never been a problem for me, as long as you see them coming they basically just get 1 pass on you and you can maneuver to dodge amd then they are gone
As for the issue. 7.0-10.0 is compressed to all hell at the moment.
F-104 should be further away from most 8.3-9.0 aircraft, but shouldnt face 10.7 aircraft (even a few 10.3s it shouldnt be facing. Only one fix for it. Decompression
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Literally one of the worst planes in the game. Pre-nerf it was really annoying and a bit oppressive, but now it’s little more than a lobotomized mosquito. It’s barely even considered fast.
If anything, you should be complaining abt F-106 and Mig-19.
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Lightning has a higher top speed at altitude (2290km/h vs 2149), though on the deck the F-104 is faster due to the Lightning’s rip speed. However, an F-104 flat running is just about the ideal target for a Red Top and will almost always kill.
According to Statshark which isn’t 100% accurate but reasonably close a clean Lightning will be faster than a clean F-104A at altitudes above approximately 4km, with the difference in speed being dramatically higher in favour of the Lightning at altitude
I have never managed to close upon an F-104 running away from me in a Lightning, even at higher altitudes. Whilst yes, if the F-104 is within about 1.5km, they are potentially at risk of my Red top, it is also not hard for them to defeat it by turning slightly
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Well, I’ve managed to close on F-104s in my Lightning, with minimal difficulty above 5km. Perhaps the increased fuel load in Sim results in a slower Lightning? But this is an ARB discussion.
I’ve also flown the F-104 and been on the receiving end of Red Tops- dodging them at supersonic speeds in an F-104 is much more difficult than you believe, and doing so will lose a lot of speed.
This is ARB, though I always fly with max fuel even in ARB.
imagine still complaining about f104 even after its maneuverability was nerfed
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Really? IIRC I fly with approximately 50% (16min?) fuel. Just don’t afterburn outside of climbing and dogfighting. Because that extra ~15% increase in weight to bring full fuel outweighs the benefit of afterburning continuously. At least in my opinion.
I don’t think it’s nearly as good after the changes it got last year. I’d say it’s on the same level of annoying as the other 9.3 now. A well set up dive in a plane with amazing missiles can kill it. Not saying it’s fair fighting it in near max uptier though. If anything the f106 unironically powercrept it and is the problem
I prefer the endurance over the slight early game advantage. Too many times ive been caught out mid game with a lack of fuel.
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I’ve been able to kill numerous F-104s with Aim-9Bs and Red Tops in the Sea Vixen before. Depending on the speed, the F-104 can’t dodge a Red Top at all too.
There are better/equivalent planes at 9.3 IMO, but the BRs are so compressed that it can’t really go up.
It actually pulls somewhat hard at some speeds, but it loses so much speed when doing so.
F-104A/C is easy to intercept with 9Es, Red Tops, and better missiles.
F-104A/C suffers the same fate as other fast aircraft that can’t maneuver well.
More recent examples are B-66B, where if it faces an F-100D, it just loses.
F-104A even loses to F-100D.
Gaijin moved F-104s ultimate predator to 9.7 (Ayit).
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