I’ve been able to kill numerous F-104s with Aim-9Bs and Red Tops in the Sea Vixen before. Depending on the speed, the F-104 can’t dodge a Red Top at all too.
There are better/equivalent planes at 9.3 IMO, but the BRs are so compressed that it can’t really go up.
It actually pulls somewhat hard at some speeds, but it loses so much speed when doing so.
F-104A/C is easy to intercept with 9Es, Red Tops, and better missiles.
F-104A/C suffers the same fate as other fast aircraft that can’t maneuver well.
More recent examples are B-66B, where if it faces an F-100D, it just loses.
F-104A even loses to F-100D.
Gaijin moved F-104s ultimate predator to 9.7 (Ayit).
And the only thing able to catch it (F-106) is always on their team.
Anybody who says the F-104 is fairly placed (alongside the other supersonics) cannot defend how even most 9.0s are going to deal with you. How does a 9.0 deal with a F-104 who doesn’t slow down? It doesn’t. Is this fair? No.
I think the problem of F-104A/C is quite complicated; it can’t be just considered right or wrong.
In the downtier match, even though the F-104A/C are nerfed in FM, OP’s claim is right.
The only thing that a subsonic fighter can do is evade as hard as they can.
-until they die.
-or F-104A/C players lose their interest
-or F-104A/C players made a blunder enough to get killed.
Yes. If we only think about F-104A/C itself, it isn’t 9.3BR material. Should go up.
It is insanely faster than other 9.3BR supersonic counterparts, or even some counterparts in higher BR.
F-104A/C is a sinful plane because it created further compression by buffing F-86 and MiG-15/17 a year ago. (F-86 and MiG-15 can’t fight against F-104 so need to- kind of theory)
But the point at which things get complicated is, as always, the compression.
F-104A/C is forced to stay stuck at 9.3BR thanks to an insane level of compression.
If we look uptier match, which majority of jets are filled with supersonics, or [Later, exported variant of F-104], F-104A/C loses its pros rapidly, but cons also grow rapidly.
Also, if we directly compare them with other Supersonic jets like T-2 in 9.7BR, AIM-9B is not good enough to fight against planes in the uptier, which is why we can’t send them up directly to 9.7BR.
F-104A/C needs to go up eventually, and I really hope that today is that day.
But we all know that today can’t be that day.
All we can do is daydream about decompression, which Gaijin will never do. :/
TLDR
1- Yes, F-104A/C is OP and ruining the enjoyment of 8.3-9.3. (Even after nerf. efficiency goes low, but toxicity is high enough.)
2- and it also has the responsibility of ruining 7.0-9.0 thanks to Sabre/MiG buff.
3- But we can’t nerf it directly unless decompression comes up, because she is stuck at somewhat kind of sweetspot.
Maybe.
No. Bringing B-66B to defend F-104A/C is wild.
The spec difference between B-66B and F-104A/C is big.
B-66B can’t be equipped with AIM-9B, or M61A1,
and can’t fly supersonic with a fine Turbojet engine with a reheater.
Only one thing between F-104A/C and B-66B is are same.
Property of USAF.
we need major decompression in this range bad
F104 and F106 should go to 9.7 so that they ruin 9.0 and below games less. As always, players always use the argument that it’s better for 1-2 planes to suffer a bit than an entire bracket suffering because of them. It would still be compressed but you are releasing tremenodus pressure from the other brackets.
chinese F-104A exists
the best fix is to stir up enough drama so decompression happens as F104 and F106 both will get massacred by 10.7s
This is a reminder that F-100D/A with 9Es is far stronger than F-104A/C.
It’s not, it’s even more of a bus and even slower. The handling is even worse. I’m not saying the f100 should be fighting 8.3 but it’s not as OP as f104.
They have more chance against 10.7 than 8.3 have against them.
The F-100D is among the best dogfighters of 9.3 and is hilariously fast.
It’s not Mig-19S levels of fast and dogfight capability, but it’s certainly better than others.
F-100D is superior to F-104A/C. F-104A can’t even frag Sabres because of its rudder issue, while F-100 has no rudder issue and can correct well within closer ranges.
Imo, give the f104a its 9ds and move it to 9.7 and the f104c its 9es and move it to 9.7
They just dodge and wait for it to run outta fuel. Literally as simple as that.
That’s not what this chart says. You’re ignoring the Vne lines, which tell you the ripspeed of the plane. It cannot go faster than the red lines, so since f104 has a much higher ripspeed its top speed at all altitudes exceeds the Vne of the Lightning, so it is in fact faster.
Not to mention the difference in acceleration which is also heavily in favor of the f-104.
huh?
By shooting them.