If they were the same there’d be no point in adding them. A subtree is meant to be two nations working together, not an extension of one nations existing MIC. France and Belgium are close, that’s the reasoning.
Think of it as sharing your stuff with a roommate, if it was the same you wouldn’t benefit from sharing.
And that’s why I suggested a chronological cut off.
I would even go so far as to say that the Dutch Ram OQF 75 is one of a few unique Benelux offerings that France has no domestic alternative to (due to it being occupied AND none of it’s medium tank designs being furthered or advanced during that period)
France makes plenty of vehicles that they don’t field. these vehicles getting added through the sub tree are just making the French tree Germany with American planes.
Can’t wait for the next dutch tank to fly the iron cross (2a6A2-3 I don’t remember what they share)
If a variant is C&P in another tree, then variants of a similar type are C&P in the origin tree.
And Sherman, with minor changes, should be called C&P in all trees, or it’s a double standard.
Fine I’ll bite on that and I’ll update my stance then to meet your position. Remove all of them because BeNeLux shouldn’t get vehicles because they are too close to German models. I said they could be foldered because then they would be still in game for representation but not required to finish a tree.
There is hundreds of German vehicles that both Belgium and France don’t have, most weren’t even exported at all. That’s where uniqueness comes from, that’s what defines the German techtree (aside from having the highest concentration of German vehicles, go figure).
If it wasn’t for other nations, like Belgium, buying vehicles from German companies, there would only be a fraction of the vehicles in the techtree, and to add in general. So the least you can do is allow them their modified tanks, the ones they paid for.
Yes, put them in the German tree as they are modified German vehicles. Still add them just don’t dilute the French tree by making it the the American German and French tree.
It’s never been so over for Komatsu 105 GSR hopers
That’s not how sub trees work my man
I am sure they will add another version of the Pucara to the tech tree.
The issue is France doesn’t need a sub tree they have plenty of domestic vehicles to add. It’s addition ruins the French part of the French tree.
So, long story short, your take is, we need to remove BeNeLux vehicles entirely from the game, or just shoved into the German Tech Tree because nothing but C&P is bad?
Gaijin… I don’t mind the copy paste vehicles, but PLEASE for the love of God do something to reduce the grind for them. Having to spend 300,000+ RP on EACH copy paste vehicle in separate tech trees, and then stock grind and spade them is NOT fun. Perhaps spading one Leopard 2A4 unlocks the upgrades for all other (exactly the same) 2A4s, or maybe you get a 50% research discount. Or even if all versions were unlocked when you unlock just one. Think about it, it would get players to play new tech trees, and perhaps even buy talismans for them. I would.
No, I was willing to let them sit in the German tree because variants of tanks in their own tree are okay for me. The guy i was responding to called it double standards so I followed his interpretation of it. Earlier someone called the M3 Lee, T20 M4 C&P and the M1 and Leclerc C&P. You read the end of a conversation with no context.
So, BeNeLux need to find a new home instead of France, because they bought many German vehicles, and those vehicles are variants of German vehicles?
Your solution is to tear down the BeNeLux subtree into pieces and send leopards to Germany, and send falcons to USA?
Just like Canada went?
Wait, what? How can Leclerc become C&P of Abrams
The F-4E AUP is a unique modification
Correct me if I’ve missed too many of them, but we have:
I’m going to group the Mk III’s, the Mk III A1’s, the 30mm rarden’s, the ATMG carrier, and the 76mm low pressure for the time being.
90mm Cockerill MK III is on the Aubl 74 and sits at 6.7 Unless this platform gets APFSDS France has 6.3-7.0 light tanks and HEATFS slingers, and we still don’t have ELC Even 90, which bridges the gap between the 6.3 ELC bis and the AMX-13/AML-90. See below regarding APFSDS
90mm Cockerill MK III A1, based on the forum’s Cockerill Weapon system post, has access to apfsds with ~100mm 60 degree pen at 1000 meters is comparable to France’s CN90 f4 and CS90 F4 cannons, found on the Mars 15, ERC 90, AML Lynx, AMX 10 RAC, and AMX 10 PAC 90.
30mm Rarden, France has it’s own small caliber autocannon light tank and armored car platforms like France has options like the AML Hs.30 (30mm), ELC EVN 30 (30mm), ERC TTB 125 Lanza, ERC TTB 140, AMX-10P TTB 140, and Panhard CRAB CPWS 30 (2 variants)
Swingfire ATGM, The Swingfire sits at 8.0, and while France currently doesn’t have an 8.0 ATGM carrier, they have AMX-10 HOT, VCR TH HOT, VAB VCAC, RPX 6000 MCT, RPX 6000 HCT, Lohr RPX 3000 Milan, Panhard VBL HOT x4, VBL Proto Milan, VBL ATM, Lohr VPX 110M Milan, Lohr VPX 110 Milan, and Lohr VPX 5000.
76mm, Given the limited pen, this will likely either compare with the French Servals with the 60mm brandt mortar, or the TCM 81 with the direct fire 81mm mortart, found on AMLs, ERCs, and AMX-10P’s
That was my take on the Abrams Leclerc thing too.
But yeah kind of. Unless gaijin adds the mobile thing where you can take tanks from different trees or splits up sub trees into their own thing you get lineups where Germany is taking M44’s with panthers to fight American M44’s with FW190’s. I don’t want their vehicles removed from the game but as it’s added it’s just making the trees slop.
Edit: better example Germany using M44’s KV1s, Churchills, T-34s and P-47’s to fight a Japanese M24, M44, M19 and P-51
The worst decision one that absolutely no one needs is releasing the M55 for multiple nations at once. Was it really impossible to just add the Hummel for Germany right away instead of this thing? A filler like this is unnecessary and not at all appealing. Besides, why is this caliber ranked so low? And why is it in so many tech trees? Gaijin probably doesn’t even know itself.