As much as Alvis points are too far post of the time, I have to agree with them.
Calling variants C&P because they play the same snowballs until every vehicle but one in a family is C&P of each other (no matter how modified) or every tank with an L7 gun is C&P because it’s an L7 gun.
Vehicles playing the same and not being pure 1-1 of another vehicle aren’t mutually exclusive.
Variants exist on a scale from small changes like MGs, and side skirts to new everything. There are more ways to make a vehicle a variant than not, just not all of them overhaul gameplay.
It becomes C&P when it leaves the original TT. the Leclercs or Abrams even though there are minimal changes between the individual variants aren’t generally considered C&P because they are designs in their on TT and I don’t know anyone mad about having each of them
If that’s such a big issue, just use 1948 or so as a cut off. BeNeLux’s unique designs are predominantly cold war and modern vehicles (ACEC, Sibmas, Cockerill, YP/YPR series, etc) and while they are largely redundant in the French tree, I agree they should be put somewhere where they augment a tree. If the change that interwar and WW2 Benelux vehicles touch the German tree is such a turn off that you’d rather Benelux continue to be relegated to a subtree that will always be competing with French domestic designs, then a time relevant cut off is the best solution.
Yeah, this intentional dumbing down of vehicles need to stop.
At the very least if they want the vehicle at a lower BR they can lock the full ammo/ordnance behind a BR raising modification, so that it can be disabled at will and the vehicle can both use limited armament at a BR it’s needed and full armament for anyone who wants the more unique experience.
But even then in many cases the proper ammo wouldn’t even change the BR too much anyways, and it’s only done to “standardize” certain vehicles, which really shouldn’t be how its done.
I get that, I was more pointing out that those shouldn’t be in the French tree at all when Belgian vehicles share almost nothing with French vehicles.
How their vehicles are added in game right now they are just an easy way for gaijin to say that France doesn’t need fixes or French vehicles because the ‘have’ vehicles in their tree to fill the gap.
I can assure you belgiums vehicles are not redundant to the french tree. The array of CVRT scorpions alone outdoes what France offers for light scouts easily
Not really a double standard when the standard is tanks should be in their home countries barring few and rare exceptions. having 2a6s in 3+ TTs is Copy and paste. Abrams or Sherman upgrades in the country that developed it is not.
Ground maybe, but not air, the majority of their aircraft are WW2/interwar.
In order for the BeNeLux to see its domestic vehicles in land, sea and air, it needs WW2 and interwar. And sadly, Gaijin, unwilling to do the work to make the BeNeLux its own tree, and put it in the one allied nation with room.
Heck, I have a special interest in the Benelux due to a mix of WW2 history(as there is major Canadian-Benelux stuff from then) and the fact that they used the most types of Canadian tech outside of Canada. Heck, with the OQF 75 finally getting its APHE, the Dutch Ram IIs is an even bigger want now as a Ram II with APHE will be peak (and 4.0 at least…)
If they were the same there’d be no point in adding them. A subtree is meant to be two nations working together, not an extension of one nations existing MIC. France and Belgium are close, that’s the reasoning.
Think of it as sharing your stuff with a roommate, if it was the same you wouldn’t benefit from sharing.
And that’s why I suggested a chronological cut off.
I would even go so far as to say that the Dutch Ram OQF 75 is one of a few unique Benelux offerings that France has no domestic alternative to (due to it being occupied AND none of it’s medium tank designs being furthered or advanced during that period)
France makes plenty of vehicles that they don’t field. these vehicles getting added through the sub tree are just making the French tree Germany with American planes.
Fine I’ll bite on that and I’ll update my stance then to meet your position. Remove all of them because BeNeLux shouldn’t get vehicles because they are too close to German models. I said they could be foldered because then they would be still in game for representation but not required to finish a tree.
There is hundreds of German vehicles that both Belgium and France don’t have, most weren’t even exported at all. That’s where uniqueness comes from, that’s what defines the German techtree (aside from having the highest concentration of German vehicles, go figure).
If it wasn’t for other nations, like Belgium, buying vehicles from German companies, there would only be a fraction of the vehicles in the techtree, and to add in general. So the least you can do is allow them their modified tanks, the ones they paid for.
Yes, put them in the German tree as they are modified German vehicles. Still add them just don’t dilute the French tree by making it the the American German and French tree.