Im Israel main and Im going insane with the copy paste.
WE GOT A DAMN MERKAVA 1 BUT WITH THE EARLY SABOT.
Like gaijin could add actually LIGHT tanks, spaa (we dont have saclos spaa and still weakest top tier spaa), or at least finish the family of the sabra, sholef and other ifv (like achzarit or m113).
But nah lets just add copy paste to this tree, like the premium netz or ouragan.
its so excessive to the point that there are no more reasons to have tech trees
Not political reasons. But about the community.
Many people dont want ukraine to be under ussr tree, chinese players preventing japan to get thai vt4, etc.
In my opinion gaijin is cooking something with ukraine aside from ussr. Or maybe not idk, I have the feeling maybe korea.
Personally I think nations need copy paste from other nations to complete their TT and br lineups. For example Japan, if it didnt get the F-15 or Su-30 copy paste, then it just end with 1 plane in top tier (F-2).
Where I draw the line its adding copy paste from vehicles that already are in the same TT. Like the new israeli merkava 1, or the netz, or the ourugan.
At least make some cool looking changes for premium like the tiger ost or t34 partisan, or slighly improvements like prem merkava 3 raam sagol. And not just the same vehicle but with another skin.
If I’ve learned anything abt the forums, those who oppose copy paste are the minority.
I’m not 100% sure but I think it’s the opposite. Larger wings mean you pull less AoA which makes you turn sharper.
We need balance between nations, otherwise what’s the point to grind anything other than the strongest tree, but so far Rafale had been dominating for a year and then the Su-30SM2 which doesn’t have AL-41 equipped IRL is coming and would probably be 14.7 soon.
On the other hand Chinese tree has a lot of of unique stuff to come, but its vehicles are gimped, J-10C magically having twice the drag of Rafale post Mach 1, not receiving the IRL WS-10B engine and etc. At this point the game is neither balanced nor realistic.
The true reason behind that VT-4 and M1A2T mess was Gaijin’s unwillingness of fixing problems on domestic CN tanks (spall liners still haven’t come after years), and their solution was to add C&P. There’s literally no logic.
The current J-10C is exactly like the F-15C EG: both feature AESA radars and carry additional missiles, but with almost no improvement in maneuverability. Each has its own distinct characteristics (the J-10C has a better radar, while the GE variant is equipped with BOL), and they share a similar in-game role at the same Battle Rating of 13.7 as secondary variants. Additionally, in the game, the J-10C’s model reuses many detail assets from the J-10A, apart from its primary features.
Um, Republic of China is a tech tree in War Thunder.
Ukraine is not.
As for copy-paste, that’s largely at 10.7, not really as much at the top end, and the only one off the top of my head is ITO-90M.
I cannot use any aircraft from the Soviet, American, or other tech trees in Japan.
I can use different aircraft of the same family of aircraft, but not the same aircraft.
None of the aircraft you mentioned in that section are copy-paste. Malaysia’s offerings are all unique aircraft, as an example.
no its not
Something I can agree with, imo Japan only needed Thailand. Imo I would’ve rather ASEAN be it’s own thing.
It’s not getting excessive. It’s been excessive for many years.
Where do I draw the line? If the vehicle has no changes at all compared to that of its country of origin, it’s copy-paste. Like the Japanese/Chinese/Italian M24, the East German/Hungarian MiG-15bis or every version of the M44 that isn’t on the US tech tree.
Ideally I think all copy-paste should be removed. Otherwise the RP cost should be lowered if you own the vehicle in another tech tree. It wouldn’t reduce the bloat, but at least would make the grind more bearable.
Tech trees should only be defined by what that country developed or imported and modified. Everything else just bloats the tech trees. If you want to play Russian vehicles, play Russia. If you want to play German vehicles, play Germany. It should be a no-brainer.
Um, Republic of China is a tech tree in War Thunder.
Ukraine is not.
Gaijin doesn’t even allow the ROC flag in the Chinese tech tree for political reasons, which is the same logic for Ukraine.
I can use different aircraft of the same family of aircraft, but not the same aircraft.
From a gameplay perspective, saying “they’re different variants of the same family” doesn’t change much. Minor variant differences don’t meaningfully affect how they play, so functionally it is still copy-paste.
Top tier or not, Nations have exported vehicles to other nations for years. Copy paste exists throughout the entire game in every tree.
Japan id currently in the spotlight taking a SU30sm and an F/A-18D under Malaysia. Ofc, Malaysia exists in real life and utilises both of these vehicles, yet they dont have enough aircraft to feild and entire tech tree. Japan after props also stuggled to have a fully fleshed tech tree (since they only owned Sabres, F104, F4, F15 and their own F2). Japan needs small nations for top tier aircraft so they can have some diversity like other bigger techtrees.
Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia are PERFECT for this task. Giving japan a big boost in diverse vehicles that otherwise wouldnt get added (F/A-18D for example, which was their only version they brought)
Copy paste may annoy the larger tech trees becuase they have enough vehicles to keep adding them, whereas small trees brought vehicles from these nations irl, or subtrees are built apon buying said vehicles.
@ALTA1R
The ROC flag isn’t there because the military flag is present.
It has nothing to do with politics.
Ah, the personalized definition that makes Leclerc copy-paste of M1A1.
Then people will deny it instead of admitting it’s a silly definition to use.
Lack of time and money. I’m gonna use the Chinese tree instead since that’s my case, but similar situation. I started play WT right around the time ZTZ96 was added. I’m still only around 10.3. Most of my time is spent studying at school, or doing research. I consider it lucky if I can play for half-a-hour a day. I have no money to buy my way to top tier either, all my money is spent on rent, bills, or tuition. The Chinese TT allows me to play both eastern and western vehicles: T-55/M60, Mig-21/F-5, F-16/Su-27, T-34/M4, M1(someday)/T-72 (based), Mirages, some Japanese tanks, etc. Bottom line, trees with a lot of Copy & Paste vehicles have the unintentional benefit of allowing players like me to enjoy many different vehicles without grinding out many different trees, which would have taken forever, and I’ll probably only be able to enjoy one side at this rate.
Russia, Germany, US losing a couple vehicles that are better performing to other ain’t gonna make it lose their identity. Their identity is entire TT full of vehicles with a specific design style. Minor TTs have this issue.
Nope, it’s only gonna get worse. Welcome to the real world. Countries realize it’s just cheaper to buy vehicles instead of developing an entire industry and making it inhouse. And money is king. There’s a finite amount of vehicles irl. Gaijin adds them faster than the world can make new ones. Someday, we’re gonna run out of indigenous vehicles to add and resort to copy and paste. It’s not an if, it’s a matter of when.
Personally, I draw the line at captured vehicles that didn’t serve a purpose by the capturing side. Vehicles that were captured, but then used in combat by the other side are fair game, such as the Japanese tanks in the Chinese TT. Or Vehicles captured but were used to advance their industry (I have no idea how to phrase this better), such as T-62 No 425 (?) also in the Chinese TT.
By everything it every used. If I wanted to play by what nations developed, I would’ve played WoT, WoWs, and WoWp.
jfc, the WT player base cannot be satisfied. Gaijin adds an indigenous vehicles and y’all still complaining. patience, it’s gonna take some time, but one step at a time. Would you rather not have it in-game? Gaijin already has the model, why not add in it? Obviously Gaijin has higher priorities than completely new Israeli vehicles, would you rather have nothing this update?
So I must be happy for getting an identical vehicle?
If they are lazy to make new vehicles models, they just could introduce the sholef v2, t55/tiran 5, or the bardelas with the fastest autoloader.
Or also the sabra mk 2 and mk 3.
Also I would rather have new ammunitions than a “new” same tank.
Also I remember the chinese community getting mad over another j11 until they got the j10c. So why I cant complain?
beggars can’t be choosers
And look what they’re getting. A J-10C gimped to who knows where
You are right, I will be happy with my 2 merkava mk1, 2 merkava mk2, 2 merkava 3 and 2 merkava mk4
Thats a bug matter, it happens to almost every new vehicle in any nation. Also they really beg for the j10c and at least they got it.
“If a vehicle was co-developed by several nations, such as the DF-105, SK-105, Eurofighter, or Tornado, it should go to the all nations that developed them.”
but in my eyes that is logical, because both countries worked on it
“Meaningful gameplay differences are good, but pure C&P is mostly not even with a visual change. If there is a difference that affects how an aircraft plays, it’s capabilities, or it’s BR, it can not be considered C&P. Vehicles like the Finnish F-18C, Mig-19S, Mig-23MLA, G.91 R/3, Belgian F-16s, Mig-21Bison, Strv 122s, several Chinese tanks based on the T-54/55/62, most Magachs, and quite a few more planes and tanks are all fine despite initially looking like C&P vehicles.”
yes, I get your point and I agree
“Copy/Paste is a large issue in lower tier sim, and I think it could be partially solved by not doing pure Nation v Nation MM, but rather vehicle v vehicle MM. This would mean you can’t have your West German M55 on the same side as your Tiger, or that the American BF-109 would be flying with German ones, and not against them.”
yeah, but this also applies at higher tiers, like with the M60 from China, but ground sim at high BR is basically dead anyway
“Copy/Paste is a large issue in lower tier sim, and I think it could be partially solved by not doing pure Nation v Nation MM, but rather vehicle v vehicle MM. This would mean you can’t have your West German M55 on the same side as your Tiger, or that the American BF-109 would be flying with German ones, and not against them.”
totally agree, this would be great
