I got all but 2 helicopter for us by using ground so I second your statement
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I think tripod already explains it well so I’ll just give my perspective. The biggest issue that plagues the hellfire is it’s speed, flight model, and guidance type. Though missile count and damage output is good, it doesn’t balance it out with the amount of down sides you will get.
Penetration: Yes is less compared to the hellfire however any elevation over tanks can easily pen and cripple the tank. Unless you’re firing on the same altitude as the tank, which is ground level (ignoring the fact that you can’t even have LOS on ground level since terrain features exist), you will always have altitude/elevation over a tank. This is ignoring the fact that many almost all tank engagements will be from the side or at an angle. So penetration doesn’t matter.
Damage: Yes the damage on the Vikhr is significantly less than the Hellfire however two consecutive launches can result in a kill or at least significantly crippling the tank. this doesn’t mean you can’t kill a tank in one blow. It can happen but not to same efficiency of the hellfire.
Speed: 475m/s is not slow at however what you fail to consider is the burn time and trajectory. The Hellfire only hits it’s max speed for a short period of time, then looses that speed very quickly. This doesn’t help the fact that the trajectory is of a arc, leading the flight time being significantly longer. The combination of this results in a very slow missile at the point of impact. This means that you cannot make course corrections without it having the missile being thrown off.
The Vikhr missile doesn’t suffer from this issue. It’s burn time significantly longer resulting in reaching a max speed of 600m/s, and since the trajectory is of a straight line, it doesn’t bleed speed as fast resulting in a very fast missile at the point of impact. This means you can make course corrections without having the missile being
I did a quick test, 93m altitude, hitting a target 5.1km away. The time it took for the vikhr to hit, 10 seconds. The time it took for the hellfire to hit 20 seconds. that is 20 seconds of you being in a vulnerable spot.
The Vikhr is a beam riding missile. It is not affected by smoke, bushes,trees and etc. As long as you can see where the target is, you will hit it. You can see the missile as you guide it.
Meaningless statements like this:
AGM-114 can ripple fire and frag up to and over 8 tanks in <120 seconds.
False, you don’t see 8 tanks all grouped up together (usually only seen in PVE) let alone not one smoking after one gets hit. At best you can get away with 2 or 3 but rarely anything higher. This doesn’t also assume the fact some tanks have LWR meaning that you cannot surprise them and 9/10 they will smoke.
AGM-114 has a more consistent warhead.
Vikhr can go through smoke.
Misleading. Vikhrs has a consistent warhead but it’s significantly weaker than the hellfires. Though one thing to note is that you can still over pressure on the roof of tanks and overpressure in general. You sacrifice speed and accuracy. Speed and accuracy is more important. Hitting targets at range with precision (through smoke, foliage, etc) is more important. The more time you are in the air, the risk of you being hit by a spike, sam system, etc.
stop repeating Russia’s claims
This term has been thrown willy nilly and has lost it’s meaning. Russian claim doesn’t mean anything, it’s how it’s implemented in game. Vikhrs is the most superior manually guided missile in game. You will constantly see posts complaining how much of a nuisance Vikhrs are but not hellfires.
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Hellfire misses despite laser designator being on target, not enough thrust registered.
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If you want the AGM-179 it is a weapon that is used on the AH-1z. Just saying.
They are implemented exactly how they’re used IRL.
Which means you’re claiming they’re superior IRL, which begs the question of why every major country chose laser, IR, and radar instead.
JAGM-MR is laser guided.
So yeah, you’re repeating Russia’s claims.
You pit an Apache vs Vikhr launcher, the Apache will get 16 ground frags in the time the Vikhr launcher gets 4 - 6.
“But muh smoke!” is temporary, and mostly an offensive feature of a tank.
Carpathians, Abandon Factory, Japan, Abandon Town, the list goes on. Every small to medium sized map has groups of tanks.
Carpathians is where I got most of my helicopter frags for both my Ka-50 and my Apache.
I haven’t gotten Carpathians when using Britain otherwise Rooivalk would have more frags too.
Incorrect, Vikhrs and most likely other missiles of that guidance type over-perform in game. Viikhrs when launched has a spiral path and the farther it goes, the more inaccurate it becomes. In addition it only has one control fin so the maneuverability will be a lot worse. What we have in game gets rid of all that
In game implementation != It’s real life counterpart. To say otherwise is being naive
Also incorrect. Smoke is used to temporary hide yourself from laser, thermals and also visually. If all you do is sit in one place in that smoke (even after you’re done repairing) that’s on you for dying. You need to reposition which is what a lot of people have done.
Misleading, for those who don’t know, read this: The double standard when talking about the Brimstone's capabilities - #290 by HondaCivici
Again playing in a PVE setting or Heli PVP (which ended almost a 2.5 years ago) doesn’t translate to GRB. You will rarely see 8 tanks grouped that close. Let alone not one popping smokes and getting behind cover.
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The Vikhr spins in-game, as well as has reduced maneuverability just like real-life.
This isn’t 2020 anymore.
The fact you keep calling ground RB “heli mode” is proof enough.
Incorrect. Spinning != Spiraling. I suggest you watch videos of Vikhrs being launched instead of getting your historical facts from warthunder
Misleading, show us your service record for the vehicles that can use hellfires in Realistic Battles
Edit: This is my issue with these type of people, they play PVE or heli PVP and think their experience in the apache will be the same in GRB. It’s absolutely appalling when they say things like the Hellfire is equivalent to the vikhr.
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Lets not forget that the laser guidance cone does not get narrow in WT as it does irl and the fuse needs to be set prior the launch.
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No, they did fix that and last i remember it was not reverted. The only missile that can guide large numbers at a distance now is the 114 cat girl made by Raytheon.
The preset has not been incorporated into the game yet.
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No, they did not. They implemented timer, not narrowing guidance cone.
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Narrowing guidance cone?
Don’t standard laser beam riding missiles have a guidance cone that expands over distance? (STARstreak is the only missile immune to this issue last I heard).
Or are you talking about the Hellfire with that?
Okay, i found the update notes and see what you mean. They had added a timer to replicate the cone shrinking over time. But not the actual guidance system.
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No it shrinking over distance. The 114 just runns towards a laser pointer like a cat.
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Lasers dispers and lose intensity over distance sad limitation of the inverse square law.
Laser points don’t get smaller over distance, they get larger, dispersing the energy over a larger area. That’s why a burning laser can put holes in a tin can at 30 cm distance but barely destroy a thin layer of paint at 30m.
The hellfire has a system to determine the area within the laser dot is the center, giving it unparalleled accuracy for a SALH missile. That’s why the AGM-114R-9X can make do with a ~1.5 meter diameter kinetic warhead. Much more accurate than a cat chasing a laser dot.
I think that’s what @Steelbeast meant but I could be wrong
I’m pretty sure we do have it in game but for only tanks. I’ve seen it on the T-series tanks with their ATGMS, the TOW systems (different guidance type by have the same effect) and some others. But it doesn’t look it was applied to helicopters.
Though I’m curious on how accurate the Apache fire control system is
I was talking about beam rider guidance cone.
Except that timer does not capture the fact that missile can fly out of the cone, in some situations, like tracking targets with high angular velocity etc.
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Following the discussion he is giving an example of 2 different guidance types. Saying the vhikers cone will shrink over time to improve accuracy at distance cause beam riding. But a hellfire tracks the laser point which is more like a cat not beam riding.
U sure? I had RBS 70 lose the beam a few times in my ASRAD-R.