You forget that outside SPIKEs, all other AGMs require a BR increase for helicopters running better weapons, that includes JAGM-MR.
The thing with Brimstone 2 is that BR doesn’t exist in War Thunder ground because it’s higher than 13.0.
Laughs in KA-50… 11.3 Helicopter which outperforms 11.7 helicopters in pretty much every aspect from survivability to being able to ignore any form of Anti Air outside of CAP… which it can kill with proxy fuse missiles anyway. The lack of FLIR system is not justification to keep it low enough to club everything without fear of reprisal.
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The last time I died to a Ka-50 was last year and I respawned in my M1 that had proxy rounds and shot it down in one shot. Oh yeah, the only reason I died was cause zero team mates were in SPAA and I didn’t have proxy rounds unlocked. That’s it, otherwise it wouldn’t have gotten any frags that match.
Ka-50 is not and has never been more powerful than 11.3s currently here.
Its missile range is identical to almost all other helicopters at 11.3, all 11.3 helicopters are susceptible to SPAA.
Dude, 8km range is not “identical” to 10km… let alone when SPAA that it will see range out to 8km as well with one or two exceptions.
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Vikhrs takes about 26 seconds to travel 10km vs Hellfire that takes about 38 seconds to travel 8km. Combined with its Prox fuse and its pretty clear that vkhrs is a better missile than AGM-114.
Why the Apaches are 12.0 and not at the very least 11.7 is beyond me. They dont really stand much of chance vs any competant SPAA, even the weak ones can deal with an apache fairly easily. (I have no issue dealing with Apaches in the Stormer HVM)
Top tier ground needs a massive decompress and we could easily spread the tanks we already have in-game up to 13.0. Longer ranged or at the very least, much faster laser guided weapons such as JAGM-MR or Brimstone 2 would be a reasonable answer to Spike for nations that never used it.
EIther that, or they need to reconsider their stance on no-placeholder seekers for mmV AGMs.
Because Hellfire at top tier is not tenable at the moment.
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10km going >100kph against a static target, or over 1000 meters above the ground for gravity assist against a static target.*
SPAA range against Ka-50 is 10 - 12km.
It’s used exclusively in 11.7 lineups as 11.3 Soviets doesn’t exist.
@Morvran
K. Ka-50 dies to VT-1/ADATS before the Vikhr gets to target.
Proxy fuse is why the Vikhr is worse than AGM-114 in ground battles. It mattered in heli PVP which doesn’t exist anymore.
Right… So KA-50/52 stands no chance vs ADATS, imagine what chance the Apache has when it has to loiter for twice the time vs a Pantsir
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No helicopters stand a chance against any of the top SPAA, welcome to the reason why ADATS is still 11.7: Its stats are all kills on helicopters, so Gaijin doesn’t move it down to 11.3 where it’d be more balanced.
Fixed wing CAS can’t be killed by SPAA. SPAA can’t be killed by helicopters.
Helicopters get destroyed by SPAA. SPAA gets destroyed by fixed wing CAS.
It’s dumb.
Oh, and some history:
Helicopters get spammed out [2020], people grind SPAA for helicopters [2020 - 2021], helicopters stop spawning and CAS starts spawning [2020 - 2022], SPAA frags bad CAS players and get moved up [2022], people start bringing helicopters again and SPAA gets easy kills [2022 - present], people are bringing fixed wing CAS to destroy SPAA so SPAA stays the same BR and never moves to more balanced positions.
Only applies to helicopters that are performing average or good at it’s BR. The Apache isn’t one of them. It’s is a below average helicopter that is out classed by almost all other 12.0 helis but the Z10 (depends on personal preference).
It’s airframe is not equivalent to the KA52 (which everyone can agree on is the gold standard), it’s chain gun is terrible and it’s AAM is terrible (it should have block II or III but it has FIM-92E). But most importantly it’s the Hellfires that make it suck.
You still haven’t countered my points on the link I have provided.
As for the Brimstones, it would be OP but again, when the Vikhr was introduced it was king for a couple of years.
I’m gonna call you out on it again. You rarely have any experience playing helis in GRB, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Look at the my profile, look at my KD in the KA52 and compare it to the Apache/Viper.
Playing PVE doesn’t make experienced in playing helicopters. You are going against bots that have room temperature IQ
edit: I have a sneaking suspicion of who’s flagging my post and I can probably do the same because I’m not the one who’s name calling but I won’t. trying to hide some post for getting called out is something else lmao
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@HondaCivici
“Hundreds of hours in helicopters isn’t enough. You need to be a cheeto eating no-lifer with at least 1000 hours in helicopters to have an opinion.”
Stop gatekeeping people that have lives outside War Thunder.
Oh and nice implying players are bots by dismissing heli PVP.
The only way you get a high KDR in any and all helicopters is if you stat pad, AKA spawning when there’s no SPAA on the enemy team.
The reason why I don’t play helicopters in ground RB is because they’re useless and a spawn point sink.
Tanks are objectively superior for spawn cost.
Vikhr was never “OP” against tanks, it was OP against helicopters in heli PVP; and for ground battles it was just used by good players during a time when no one had SPAA. Cause the incentive to grind for top SPAA like ADATS didn’t exist in 2020 until good players spammed out Apaches, Kamovs, and Tigers.
Ka-52 is not the best airframe, the dual rotor design reduces maneuverability in exchange for stability.
Oh, and on top of all that, zero of the top squadrons bring helicopters into squadron battles, and that doesn’t have spawn points.
People claim that NATO CAS is within SPAA range in matches when in reality it’s just all the helicopters at top end.
And you’re attacking me cause I want AH-64E to be added to the game… wild.
I come in here, answer a question with an endorsement for adding AH-64E, and after that I get spammed with posts defending Ka-50/52 just cause people died to them when their team didn’t have SPAA up.
You know what helicopter I blamed when I died to it? G-Lynx, cause unlike others it can actually stay outside SPAA range and do damage. It was moved up to its now balanced BR, and I think that some vehicles could see BR reductions along with SPAA.
He called the AI ground targets in Heliopter PvE bots… Dude. C’mon
I am gonna leave y’all to duke it out… but you are wrong in your assessments… very, very wrong.
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He claimed heli arcade battles, which includes over 100 hours of heli PVP you and I played.
200+ AGM-114 frags against Ka-50s.
200+ Vikhr frags against general helicopters.
TOW frags against few helicopters [AH-1S].
Then there’s the realistic battles where I learned everything about every AGM and missile ranges, along with ideal tactics.
30 hours learning and using weapons to their full extent.
For a total PVP hour count well over 100.
Dying to a 20th SPAA won’t change the results of helicopter conclusions in ground battles.
The only helicopters that have a good chance against SPAA has been the HKP3C and Lynx.
Oh would you look at that, their performance is good in my stats that Honda cares so much about.
Where in that statement did he call players bots? I will wait
Looks at your profile,
has a total of 4500hrs.
Looks at my profile, has a total of 2500hrs
😐
I’m just gonna leave it at that. If you can’t fathom that people who play helicopter don’t simply go straight up and launch ATGMs, you’re proving my point.
@HondaCivici
So your lifetime in helicopters is low. Dude… that’s even worse.
“Check my stats bro.” >Tons of battles with low life span.
Why?
And not sure why you’re posting the last sentence.
You trying to do a strawman or what?
I’m not even sure why you’re trying to argue against someone that wants the AH-64E in-game which solves your first post.
Just cause I don’t buy into Russia’s claims about Vikhr and did a cross-analysis personally while checking in on real helicopter pilots as well as DCS pilots.
I have countless sources of perspective when comparing a Soviet missile with a TOW-like warhead to that of an AGM-114B/K.
Conclusion: One is not objectively superior to the other.
Play style will dictate your preference more than anything else.
AGM-114 can ripple fire and frag up to and over 8 tanks in <120 seconds.
Vikhr can go fast toward 1 target at a time.
AGM-114 has a more consistent warhead.
Vikhr can go through smoke.
So yeah, stop repeating Russia’s claims about Vikhr and focus on what’s important: Balancing helicopters and implementing new helicopter systems for improvements.
Damn, didn’t know the Apache can carry 4 of em. Would be pretty dope to seem them in game though I wonder how effective it would be.
Would be really cool if we get to see this mini cruise missile in game.
What configuration would you considering the -64E being implemented with?
Basic -114L’s seem like a waste of a perfectly good airframe, considering you give up significant range for F&F LOBL capability (depending on target aspect range is reduced to 4~6km), and further makes redundant the improved radar performance among other things.
AGM-114L would make the AH-64E BR 13.3+ in ground battles with how things are currently.
SPIKES would allow AH-64E to remain 12.0.
JAGM-MR would allow ~12.7.
Select SPAA reductions would allow some 12.0 helicopters to move down to 11.7.
And if Multispectral (MMW / IR ) Smoke was universally granted due to abstractions and game balance?