He lost me with the boss tank thing ,I think he lost himself : ) he also fails to mention the nations with little at 6.7 7.7 in the line up
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Yeah it can suck. I usually stick with playing a more supporting/flanking role in full uptiers. The guns still work great, very true in the case of german heavies/tds, but you have to be more careful to avoid drawing attention to yourself.
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Some nations could really use some more mid rank additions to bolster some line ups. But the US has a crazy 6.7 line up. 5 heavies, including premiums, and a couple decent tds. cant forget good cas too.
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You’re right. It was posted back on the old forum but I’m recalling from memory. I’ll look for it and post it if I can find it again - if I can’t, feel free to disregard the number. But the actually important part of that argument at least to me is that HE for all vehicles actually underperforms compared to the real world in that the impact of the casing is not simulated; which makes me really confused when people complain about M109s and similar. HE is not “postwar ammo” or anything of the sort. It was a huge tank killer during the war in real history.
Then you’re in danger. It is that simple.
You can replicate this across every vehicle: there is an optimal way to play a given vehicle, but you won’t always get the opportunity to dictate the terms of the engagement. You’ve got to live with that.
Sometimes you’ll be in the JT and will have to push a cap or the team will lose. Is it high risk? Sure. Are you ideal for the job? No. But if you’re what’s on hand, then you’re what’s on hand. In those situations you rely on the universal Ground RB skills you always use: listen for engine sounds, look behind corners, bait people into firing, move the barrel between reloads, and so on.
I’ve had many good games with the Jagdtiger at 7.7 honestly. Although a heavy vehicle will never be the optimal choice in a full uptier, sometimes it can turn out quite nicely.
Here’s the interesting observation I’ve made playing the Jagdtiger - if you spawn it in a full uptier, a lot of your performance will be dependent by luck, or to be more specific, what the enemy spawns with. If the enemy players who are in a full downtier spawn in Foxes for example the JT is a pretty bad counter. If they spawn in 7.7 heavies though, on the right map, the Jagdtiger can be a real problem solver because it can deal with tough 7.7 heavies that other team mates might struggle with.
You can one-tap M103s and IS-4Ms from the front, for example. The huge amount of explosive filler means that if you hit a weakspot, you’re not just gonna kill the commander but blow up everything inside. For example the Foch is frontally very formidable but with the JT you can pen the cupola and kill everyone inside with overpressure.
True, as you know I would like map selection to be more varied, so there is no disagreement on this point from my side.
Still, there are plenty of spots where you can do massive damage even in a full uptier. The southwest hill on North Holland, the tunnel on Sinai, the northern side on Huertgen Forest, just to name a few.
I think at the end of the day all I can say is this: I have a huge sample of matches in the vehicle, win rate is positive, K/D is 2.7, and this includes the rather substantial amount of matches I played when I was still a noob learning the ropes the first time I researched my way up the tree. That would not be possible if the vehicle was bad, since I’m hardly an exceptional or even very good player.
Dude. Come on.
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Just a funny observation based on the ratio of german tanks played to other nations played.
Like in another thread where someone with similar stats claimed that the pt76 was op. or another who claimed that it would be balanced to move the tiger 1 to 5.0
People complain because 1. It’s a further “immersion breaking” tank at the BR that is really out of place and 2. It is a great example of being very survivable despite no armor because shells simply don’t fuse and you often do little damage to successful hits. 3. Less valid but others also simply do not like the fact that if a M109 fires at you, you are likely dead as it usually 1 shots.
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I do wish they would just remove it
It’s not funny at all. I don’t know if you noticed, but I was among the people explaining to that guy why the Tiger 1 at 5.0 is an insane idea.
Literally in this thread I’ve defended the BR placement of the M-51, argued against historical matchmaking and said I don’t think the JT is overtiered. The very comment talking about HE casing impact mentioned WW2-era vehicles (and towed arty) that used HE for tank-killing purposes from more than just one nation.
You fly past all of that and go straight for the “German main history channel muh Tiger” joke. It’s very annoying.
I won’t rehash in full what I said above, and I’ll keep it very short: HE is always lethal (when it doesn’t get screwed by RNG or when the shot placement is wrong). You can kill MBTs with a Sturmpanzer. What makes M109s (and 2S3Ms and other equivalents) strong is their mobility, but then again that’s why they’re so much higher in BR than other HE slingers. The survivability I had issues with at first but now that I know where to aim for ammo I can’t say it’s much of a problem anymore.
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I would prefer they decompress GRB in general and then move it up to the first cold war BR
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Yeah I know I said that
yeah I’ve had my shells go pretty close to the ammo before and not do any damage. It requires direct hits which aren’t always doable
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That’s true. But I don’t think they’re above the usual WT standard, if that makes sense. Sometimes Tiger II gets shot through the turret face and the ammo turns dark orange or doesn’t explode… I think we’ve all been in situations like this before, with basically any tank. I can’t say I have noticed it happening more with M109s than with other vehicles. But it’s just my anecdotal experience and it’s not like I’ve been keeping count, so I might be wrong.
That’s the M109 too, who can in some situations hide its ammo rack, but the 2S3M for example is much less survivable I think, usually when I shoot its turret it just detonates.
I don’t really see people dropping nukes and dominating matches with M109s. I think performance wise they’ve integrated into that BR bracket quite well, unlike say, the Fox when first introduced.
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M109 has no armor to create spall with and APHE also doesn’t fuse on it turning all conventional ammo into solid shot. This is why it has it happen more often than other vehicles.
tbf, when i just see a quote saying that the jadgtiger’s HE should get a 486% pen buff, that is the first thing to come to mind.
that and the ebr. started at 4.7 now at 6.7 lol
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So you do not want players to play what they like and want? Sounds like being a bad sport to me.
That’s not what I was saying though. I was saying that all high explosives from all nations are underperforming based on OTL, because they lack the kinetic impact of the casing. HE was a huge tank-killer in WW2. So people who complain that M109s killed their heavy tank frontally and that it shouldn’t happen, clearly haven’t looked at what happened to Tigers who were hit by ISU-152s. They didn’t call them “beast killers” for nothing.
EDIT: also, Gaijin doesn’t use real trial values for penetration because those are impossible to standardise, they use formulas. I think that’s correct. So even if corroborated the 180mm figure is meaningless, it just served to show that HE in WT is gimped compared to OTL, and if Gaijin ever decided to change its implementation, it would be viable for many more vehicles as a tank-killer. That’s all.
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Do you not know what a “boss” is in video game terms?
Yeah, i saw the quote and didnt bother to go pull up the whole comment. my bad
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No problem mate
What he is saying is that if you implement “boss tanks” you are presented with a binary problem.
Option A: the IS4-M (let’s take this as an example) is a boss tank with very few counters on the battlefield, BUT it’s limited in numbers: you use availability of the tank to balance it. As a result, very few people will get to play it.
Option B: the IS4-M is a boss tank with very few counters on the battlefield, BUT everyone can spawn it just like they do now. Well, if everyone can spawn it, and it’s by far the strongest vehicle in that BR bracket, what’s stopping people from all spawning in that tank? Before you know it you’ll have 16 people on a team with the same tank. And then everyone will queue with that tree, so you’ll have “civil war” matches with both teams having the same tank. You have just made an entire BR irrelevant by making all the other machines a non-viable spawn option.
This is, in other words, the human element of matchmaking. If you introduce a matchmaking change, you have to ask yourself, how are people gonna abuse it? How are they gonna break it? Circumvent limitations?
If you go with option A, only the best players will play the vehicle. Or maybe you go the middle ground - it can be spawned from the start, but only a maximum of (say) four people can be in that tank. Very well, now only the players with the lowest ping and the best internet connection will get to play that tank. Or even worse, players will notice they didn’t click on it in time, so they’ll leave the match and re-queue for another match in hopes that they get the IS4-M this time (this happened during the latest season of Worldwar with, ironically, the Jagdtiger: nothing in the match could frontally penetrate it).
And if you go Option B, all the work that went into modelling and producing those digital vehicles is now wasted because they won’t be played anymore.
Gaijin went with the much easier alternative: the IS4-M should in theory be just as good/bad as every other tank at that BR. It should have similar stats and performance. While this will never be perfect, it is what game balance strives for.
When you look at it like this, how can you fault them?
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