Change the BR of the Maus

Any disagreement on this front totally disregards how much collateral damage all those nerfs have done to other game modes. And that is precisely why I call for bomb, rocket, and aircraft large gun damage to be restoratively buffed. Most diehard tank mains screaming “CAS OP!” rarely or never think about how their demanded changes harm other game modes.

Based on some Google Searching, it appears that the actual lethal radius of bombs in War Thunder is about half of what it really was - the current radius matches vehicle destruction, but the radius where the vehicle is technically serviceable but the crew is concussed into a coma or killed via spalling is totally absent. For example, a 1000lb bomb would have a roughly 25m lethal radius on say a Sherman or Panzer IV or T-34 with all hatches closed. Scale other bomb types proportionally.

Unfortunately Snail left it up to community vote and washed their hands of it afterwards, so its a dead issue even though I agree with you on it.

Also agree wholly here.

Honestly, applying the “perfect condition” logic used for tank armor and engines on everything should also apply to damage model stuff - if the round hits or spall hits it, the thing dies.

Ammo could be intentionally set to the minimum internal module HP (presumably 1) so that if anything damages it at all, it blows up.

Now, what do you think of the rest of my ideas regarding CAS Reformation? I noticed you didn’t comment on them much at all.

Un-nerfing APCR makes HEAT unnecessary. 90mm M304 with corrected pen of 317mm and corrected postpen comparable to 90mm T33 APBC would laugh at a Maus the moment it un-angled its turret or exposed its side. 76mm M93, 17-pdr APDS, 57mm BR-271P, and 85mm BR-367P would all be able to handle a Maus side at least.

Then 76mm M319/M331A2, 90mm T44, and more powerful conventional guns would be borderline-overkill.

Yes it can - just not the front. Unless you are slightly above it and shot trap it that is.

For the sake of ALL heavy tanks and heavy armor, not just the Maus.

Frontally immune with intentionally invincible cannon barrels, yes. People should be forced to load specialized rounds or shoot the sides of said “armor behemoths,” otherwise what’s the point of those tanks if the armor they throw away all their mobility to obtain doesn’t actually protect them?

Then meanwhile things like SPHs would simply not give a fuck about the armor monsters and send them into next week. As would specialized SPGs whether they have comparable armor and guns or just all-powerful guns.

I do agree with all of your ideas fixing CAS, it is inherently unbalanced but doing things like making SPAA more practical to play, making CAS quickly accessible so a lot of it dies early, and removing the hit cam and therefor a lot of rage would help a lot. The only reason I have the hit cam on is so I know where I died from and also there’s some hilarious stuff sometimes, mostly just the weird shit arty shells do on occasion.

I think stuff like this is why Gaijin is kinda unwilling to listen to and work with the community, because while there is stuff like this entire conversation that is incredibly helpful there’s also so many instances of people wanting stuff and then hating it. That’s the exact reason the Minecraft mob vote got removed, people kept wanting stuff and then complaining when it was added.

I am also glad we both agree that just because something can’t be killed frontally is not a reason to downtier it. Heavy tanks are meant to be countered by faster flankers and TDs that can wipe them out, and said TDs are meant to be beaten by anything more mobile while mediums are competing against each other. It’s a matter of skill and knowledge of how to play against specific counters. ThunderMuffin shows this frequently in Maus vs. ____ videos, because it’s practically immobile the reason the Maus team wins or the reason one guy survives for an hour is because they play it well, they find a corner with good range where they can’t get snuck up on.

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They need to fix ammo damage overall. I have had it happen multiple times in the past few weeks that i shot an SPAA through the ammo and it somehow lived even though the ammo exploded. And one of those shots was a 100mm shell going through 5 bends of the XM-246 belts from the front.

Not asking for 6.7 fixes everything without making it OP.

Why 7.7 is dead:

At 7.7 the Maus sees 8.7 in 90% of its games.

Stabilized APFSDS (T-55AM-1, M60A1 AOS, Chieftain)

2nd gen ATGMs (IT-1, RakJPz 2 HOT, Swingfire)

HEAT-FS that pens 400mm from every angle

Its armor goes from “strong but has weakspots” to “doesn’t exist.” You are a 188-ton heavy with no armor and 20 km/h top speed.

Why 7.0 works:

At 7.0, max uptier is 8.0. That is HUGE:

You mostly avoid APFSDS and ATGMs

You still face HEAT-FS (Leopard 1, M60, Ikv 91, RU 251) so you are NOT invincible

In a 6.0-7.0 downtier you actually get to be a heavy tank for once

Your weakspots - turret face 240mm, lower front 200mm, side 185mm - are still easy pens for 6.0-7.0 tanks like T-34-100, M-51, British APDS, etc.

It stays balanced because:

Size: Still the biggest target in game, free kill for CAS

Mobility: Still 20 km/h, can’t cap, can’t flank, can’t retreat

Reload: 19.2s ace - a T-32 at 7.0 reloads twice as fast

No stab, no LRF - everyone at 7.0-8.0 has better gun handling

Compare to other 7.0 heavies:

T-32: smaller, faster, better reload, harder turret

IS-3: faster, better armor profile

Conqueror at 7.3: better gun, better armor

Maus at 7.0 would be slower than all of them but have more raw armor sometimes. That’s a fair trade.

7.0 makes it playable, not broken. 6.7 might be too much, 7.7 is unplayable, 7.0 is right in the middle.

It would finally be a fun event vehicle again instead of a hangar decoration.

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i’m gonna be honest, i think the maus is just one of those things that’s kinda impossible to put in a good spot, too low and very few vehicles can deal with it, too high and everything wipes it off the face of the earth, but even at 7.0 yes its got a good gun, but its slow, and a player that knows what they are doing (say a T26E1-1 player with APCR) can easily kill it and then this whole conversation would start all over again

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The Maus is perfect where it is.

Most things (other than HE slingers, M41s and Soviet 122s) cannot pen it in a downtier, whilst it is really bad in an uptier.

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The difference is at 7.0 it would at least sometimes get to be a heavy tank in a downtier, instead of being useless 100% of the time. That’s how heavies like the Jumbo and Tiger Il work too.

Your entire argument hinges on the full uptier card. That simply does not apply when BRs are as compressed as they are. Besides, you don’t point out how undertiered it would be at 7.0. Your argument then says “but 8.0 full uptier makes it killable” which is stupid. For it to be balanced it needs to face vehicles on even footing. So. What this sounds like is…compression and what we need to get is decompression, not further compressing the game. Decompression. NEXT!

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You do realize theirs already like three threads about lowering the Maus br though right?

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The more the merrier

Problem of uptiers is not unique to maus

Theres a quite few tanks that wouldnt be able to kill maus even side on.

Certainly a choice of argument here, WW2 tank doesnt get LRF nor stab.

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This is entirely the reason the maus got removed in the first place ffs. It cannot be balanced normally.

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Okay, it’s getting moved to 7.0. How do I kill it?

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The only option for that lineup is bombs sadly.

Thats the best part for germany mains, you dont

7.3 Is probably the lowest it could go. But even then it should have special matchmaking so it does not have to face 6.3 vehichles. Or since that would be impossible to implement, it should have aircraft level of sp cost in 6.3 games.
I believe the Maus in tank to tank engagements is a good vehichle. It’s just so slow that you loose on objectives.

So you’re basing your entire argument for a problem that any 7.7 vehicle faces
That’s not how this works
You have to compare it to its peers at its own br

Now what is a 6.0 tank going to do against a Maus (using your own argument here)

Your entire reasoning is hypocritical and short-sighted

Also illogical

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You somehow get a flank on it with the SU-100 without getting killed by the rest of the enemy team and pop a shot into the flat side at less than 500m.

But yeah Maus at 7.0 is insane. I could maybe see 7.3 because a lot of nations start getting early HEAT-FS and even if not starts having 200+mm pen AP but it’d bully even more in down tiers than it already does.

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Oh sure, lets just turn the whole 6.0 to 7.0 range into a clownshow because one single vehicle (that you shouldnt play in uptiers anyways) suffers a bit in full uptiers. Awesome suggestion. Off to the next, TigerTank1 impersonator

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The “struggles in uptiers” argument is total nonsense because well, that’s what’s supposed to happen in an uptier?

Why do people think that their vehicle is supposed to be an exception all the time

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