As this post largely doesn’t change from update to update, I’ve added this summary of any relevant changes for people returning
New bug reports added since last major update:
Changes made to the Challenger 2 this major update:
- Turret Basket added (even though it does not have a Turret basket IRL)
- Detailed internal damage model added (FCS, etc)
- Challenger 2 (All): Turnnion pins missing
Changes made to the Challenger 2 in the previous major update or since:
None
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Special thanks to PuffyTornado and Kobes-Kamov for helping me write this
As it currently stands, the Challenger 2 is one of the weakest tanks at top tier, it has way below average firepower, it is the slowest tank by far and it has next to no meaningful survivability and yet it is expected to operate directly alongside far more powerful tanks such as the M1A2 Abrams and Leopard 2A7Vs. The recent BR changes have given the CR2 a LOT of breathing room, but we still have 2 Challenger 2s at the same BR as much stronger MBTs and even the 4 at a more reasonable BR these days could do with several critical reports being fixed to bring them on-par with even a few 11.3 tanks.
Many of the issues the Challenger 2 faces are down to entirely ahistorical problems, with accepted, outstanding reports that have simply never been looked at. Some more than 2 years old at this point. Over a year ago, an overhaul was promised, but this only fixed a few minor issues, dismissed several reports and then made several ahistorical changes. The vast majority of reports still remain outstanding, including all the most pressing and critical issues. .The full list of reports still left untouched are below, but I will highlight some of the most critical reports in greater detail.
Mobility:
As of Tusk Force, a new mechanic has been added, a new type of differential steering. So far it has only been added to the EldE 98 SPAA in the Swedish tree, but various modders and data miners have explored the possibility of adding this code to other MBTs and it looks exceptionally promising for fixing many issues. The Challenger 2 included.
Footage of this can be seen here for all MBTs including the Challenger 2:
This would affect far more than just the Challenger 2s, but is very much well worth mentioning here as well. This mechanic has been long overdue for everyone, especially a tank as heavy as the Challenger, that is already struggling so much with mobility.
Firepower:
The Challenger 2 currently has one of the weakest shells at top tier, and whilst it is almost certainly underperforming compared to real life, we are confined to game conventions that massively limit the shells performance. However this does not mean the Challenger 2’s firepower cannot be improved by a notable amount.
The first is a nice simple issue, the specs for the L27A1 are wrong and could be improved to increase penetration by a few mm. The report submitted by Flame2512 which you can read here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bMbEJftRqiSp
Would increase the pen from 564mm to 572mm at 10m range and 538mm to 546mm at 2000m. A small increase, but every little helps.
As of the Heavy Cavalry Update, we have seen the introduction of Anti-ERA shells to the game. L27A1 should also receive this ability as it was able to frontally pen the UFP of a T-80U, in-game it cannot. This would be a notable buff against some of the trickier targets the Challenger 2 faces and would go a long way to helping buff the Challenger 2’s lower-end firepower performance it currently has.
The other more important change however is one of fire rate. For a long time, the Challenger 2 balanced out its weaknesses with a higher than average fire rate. This has since been “removed” by giving this same reload to far stronger tanks such as the Abrams and whilst a further reload rate buff would be appreciated, it is not the only way the fire rate can be improved. At the moment, the Challenger 2 only has a 4 round ready rack, and it takes 20+ seconds to replenish each round of this ready rack. This means it is not uncommon to be operating large portions of the match within the second stage of ammo at a far slower reload than 5 seconds. However this 4 round ready rack is almost certainly wrong. Reports by KnightFelix and Flame2512 submitted more than 2 years ago now clearly show that the main ammo storage in the turret should be considered the first stage of ammo, as it is on the Chieftain and most other top tier MBTs the reports can be read here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ojFgCJ6Jnos4
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/nzUoCC2yxJx5
In addition to these older reports, a new report by PuffyTornado shows that the current “ready rack” on the TES/OES shouldn’t even be there. These stowage locations were removed to make room for data terminals and Enforcer RWS controllers. Which only reinforces the idea that these shells shouldn’t be considered the ready rack for the rest of the Challenger 2 series (and even the Challenger 1). The report can be read here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/qZAtZXFlUseB?comment=8ZOvf98gxtWqr4MCanIVsTxi
Survivability:
The Challenger 2 is renowned for its survivability and yet in game, a single hit anywhere is nearly always a death sentence and the vast majority of the outstanding reports cover the survivability of the Challenger 2. From missing spall liners and literally holes in the armour all the way to the ERA providing ⅓ of the protection it should be. The Challenger 2 has it all. There are too many to cover in detail and the battle for many of them has been on-going for years without any success.
To that end, I’m just going to focus on several reports regarding missing spall liners from Kobes-Kamov & CHARM_3. At the moment, only the turret has any meaningful coverage but most of the main tank body is lacking most of them bar the upper front plate. Adding all the missing spall liners would have a massive increase in survivability as currently a hit anywhere is usually always a one shot due to crew positions and ammo locations. The full report can be found here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uKfLG2d5jfoW
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/y65891XieBAA
CHARM’s report was closed, because the information had already been submitted internally, but there is no sign of it being implemented as of yet
Utility
The Challenger 2s could also be outfitted with dozer blades which could improve the survivability for any hits to the LFP, but more importantly would improve the utility the Challenger 2 provides. It would also improve the available options for getting into an effective hulldown position where the Challenger 2 often best operates. If nothing else, it adds some unique gameplay to the Challenger 2 which is largely missing from any tank at top tier. Not all buffs need to be about directly buffing the vehicle. Buffs to gameplay can be just as effective.
This issue is of particular note as the Challenger 2 already has a dozer blade modeled. It was originally a part of the dev server for the original Challenger 2 and as far as I am aware, is still in the files just disabled. It would be trivial to add to multiple CR2s. I don’t believe any official reason was given as to why it was removed.
An official suggestion for this is up by CHARM_3 and can be found here:
So these are the most pressing issues. Reports never looked at, that would make the Challenger 2 a little more worthy for their current BRs. Without at least some of these changes. It is nearly impossible to justify a BR of even 11.7 for any of them. Let alone 12.7. The full list of reports can be found below and if any are missing, please do let me know and i’ll add them to the list:
Additional bug reports added since last major update
Bug List
Challenger 2 Bugs:
Mobility related
Challenger 2 (All) (And Challenger 1s): Missing Engine Horsepower(Fixed in Spearhead)- Challenger 2 (All): Incorrect gear ratios
Armour/survivability
Base Armour
- Challenger 2 (All): Incorrect Mantlet armour/Protection (Dev Post)
- Challenger 2 (All) - Missing Spall liners
- Challenger 2 (all) - missing spall liners, version 2
- Challenger 2 (All): Missing composite armour in turret roof
- Challenger 2 (All): Turret points cause shells to ignore rest of armour
- Challenger 2 (All) - Turret bustle should be RHA instead of CHA
- Challenger 2 (All): UFP Spall liner should be split
- Challenger 2 (All): Gun Mantlet, Breech and gun are too high
- Challenger 2 (All): Vulnerable to low calibre overpressure on driver
- Challenger 2 OES/TES - UFP applique armour values incorrect
External Armour
- Challenger 2 (All): Incorrect additional side armour composition (Partial fix)
- Challenger 2 (2F & 2E): UFP add-ons missing thickness and effectiveness
- Challenger 2 (2F): Side external armour doesnt work
- Challenger 2 (2F, TES & OES): Incorrect external armour
- Challenger 2: side blocks should be 200mm thick
- Challenger 2 (BN) UFP Model Incorrect
- Challenger 2 (2F & TES): Side armour protection levels
- Challenger 2 (All): Missing spall liner on the LFP
- Challenger 2 (TES & OES): SPRO-HMT CE resistance
- Challenger 2 (TES & OES): Backing Plate
- Challenger 2 (TES & OES): Applique Armor shouldn’t detonate to KE
- Challenger 2 (TES & OES): Baseplate configuration is backwards
- Challenger 2 (TES & OES): Applique Armour name and type
- Challenger 2: ASPRO-HMT incorrect protection
- Challenger 2 Dorchester 2E Addon Model inaccuracies
(Community Bug Reporting System) - Challenger Series ROMOR ERA Model Inaccuracy
- Challenger 2 TES& OES: Addon Armour back plate inaccuracy
Internal Armour
- Challenger 2 (Base) - Large armour hole present
- Challenger 2 (All): Turret basket ammunition bin unprotected
- Challenger 2 (All): Incorrect Mantlet
- Challenger 2 (TES): Internal armour ignored by shells
Challenger 2 (All): Turnnion pins missing(fixed in Heavy Cavalry)- Challenger 2 (All): Missing armour around gun mantlet
- Challenger 2 (All): Missing internal bulkheads
- Challenger 2 (All): Aiming Drives clip through spall liners
Other components
- Challenger 2 (All): Incorrect ammo storage placement (Dev Post)
(Additional Information) - Incorrect Gunner and Commander position
- Challenger 2 (All) Ammo Position issues
- Challenger 2 (OES): Incorrect ammo bin thickness
- Challenger 2 TES/OES, 8 APFSDS shells too many
APS
- Challenger 2 (BN): Iron FIst missing soft kill function
- Challenger 2 (BN): Iron fist Hard-Kill APS Issue
- Challenger 2 (BN): Iron Fist Launcher randomly spinning
Weapon Systems
Optics/Thermals
Main gun
- Challenger 2 (All): L27A1 CHARM 3 penetration too low
- Challenger 2 (All): Incorrect ready rack
- Challenger 2 (All): Ammo Stowage and first stage incorrect
Other armament
Miscellaneous
- Challenger 2(All): missing ROSY smoke protection system
- Challenger 2 (TES/OES): Armour addons should be removable
- Challenger 2(All): Missing meteo-sesnor mast
- Challenger 2 (All): Model issue, Missing wash plate
- Challenger 2 (All): Wrong X-Ray of the Challenger 2E engine Compartment
- Challenger 2 (OES): Incorrect Armour skirt plate texture
- Challenger 2 (TES & OES): Rear Grille Armour damaged model issue
- Challenger 2 0 Missing Frontal Combat Identification Panels
- Challenger 2(All): Wheels Varying Sizes
Challenger 2 Suggestions:
- Camo Netting
- Challenger 2 (TES): SolarShield for TES
- Challenger 2 (2, 2F, TES, OES): Dozer Blades
- ROSY Modifcation
[u]Related Suggestions:[u]
Would you be interested in seeing these changes?
- Fix the major issues highlighted
- Total Challenger 2 Overhaul
- Its fine as it is
#Justice4CR2