So that’s why everyone laughs at CAS haters.
No, the capture points are on the ground. The focus is on vehicles. You see tons of planes at WW2 BRs which warrants CAP being as expensive as CAS.
CAP can easily get more kills than CAS. I regularly spawn in an Il-8 or F4U-4B with the intention of bombing, but end up with 4+ air kills. Not that I was explicitly hunting for planes, but there were just simply that many players who spawned planes.
And they cannot be captured by planes. Does that tell you anything?
That tells me that planes aren’t used to capture ground objectives cause they, ya know, fly.
This has got to be bait
So the idea of planes not capturing ground points because they’re flying is so absurd, so foreign, so bizarre, such a conceptual adventure that you think it’s bait?
This change absolutley was because of low tier america getting a buttload of bombs on fighters from the very start
I guessed it was geared towards pre-leviathans toptier, cause that’s the only area that it improves.
the fake missile that has plagued top tier for ages now was bad but have you played 3.7 battles recently?
you frequently get half a team in CAS aircraft when youre unfortunate enough to have america on your team and unfortunate to eat several 1000lb bombs if youre facing them.
Its truly game ruining and hasnt actually fixed the issue.
Those are the best battles. There’s no1 to bomb you when there’s an ARB match happening above your head.
I do agree though, if Gajin intended the change to stop ARB from happening in GRB, then they completely and utterly failed cause those matches are caused by first spawn CAS’s, not second spawn CAS’s.
As a guy that abuses CAS on occasion i have to disagree. dying to something you cant fight unless you spawn a plane too ruins the tank aspect of the tank mode
Fighting CAS has never been an issue for me. As long as I’m not camping, I can just ignore CAS 99% of the time, even in things like the Waffentrager.
The only time CAS is even a threat to me is if I’m spawn camping.
you mostly play america, the worst offender for the revenge CAS and overall CAS spamhood.
You naturally escape a huge amount of the problem and overall have some of the best tools to combat it. Roof mounted .50 cal being frequent (.50 cal API-T being one of the best shells to fight aircraft at the moment) and having a bountiful selection of SPAA thats only beaten by the Russians means you are far better sheltered than the likes of any minor nation player.
Its quite horrendous facing an america USSR team as you get the brunt of the two best SPAA nations and the worst offender for CAS spammage
When you look around, it’s very obvious that the SP cost changes need to be toned down or reversed. We know that the effects of this problem are far reaching and deeply negative to players’ freedom of choice. (Years ago, we saw exactly this sort of issue in the Chronicles events…when people are deprived of their freedom of choice, they simply leave the match and that’s it.)
Outside of top tier (discussing balancing there is pointless–something is always wrong there), aircraft were already the most expensive and least cost effective vehicles of RB GFs…making them even more expensive and less effective is simply discriminatory.
Anyone that is fair-minded knows 1000+ SP for a vehicle that has a 50kg bomb or a 30mm belt with some AP shells in it is absurd when you can get a tank that’ll go on a spree for <300 SP.
As it stands, the negative effects of this change are obvious:
Players deprived of their respawn choices simply don’t stay in the match, they leave when they’d have otherwise stayed
Matches where the mix of AF/GF vehicles was important to its (current) ranking are getting stomped flat by the enemy teams (a la US 5.X in their perma-uptiers against 6.Xs)
Related to the above two points, the future ripple effects of this will be significant if nothing is done quickly:
All in all, the change to SP costs was very obviously a capricious and overly broad switch that’s not well thought out and certainly not balanced as-is.
Might changes of some sort be in order? Sure, but we’d have to discuss what such changes might be. An abrupt dictation isn’t legitimate nor suitable for balance nor freedom.
Gaijin needs to revert the change and have a proper discussion before the damage really sets in. War Thunder players want War Thunder to be War Thunder…and that means combined arms gameplay.
I haven’t been playing much U.S. in a while. My recent ground games (recent as in within the past month or two) have been almost exclusively grinding Russia and Germany.
Imo facing USSR + Britain or Japan is even worth cause they not only get incredible CAS, but also flat out overpowered CAP.
Sadly, the Warthunders forums are basically just Reddit but with better moderation. You don’t really find “fair-minded” people here.
Excluding the endless and seemingly inevitable balancing issues of top tier (which will probably never be fully resolved), reasonable balancing for aircraft and ground units in the combined arms mode has to be the #1 issue facing the game.
The issues of high/top tier (9.X+) aren’t worth talking about, given they are pretty much always intractable…but once you exclude those, the only aircraft that really poses any sort of notable issue is the Yak-9K (which has a bogus flight model and a questionable 45mm setup). One aircraft which should be altered is nothing to paint literal hundreds with…to do so is simply discriminatory.
As a matter of balancing, Gaijin had best revert the SP changes because we’ve seen where such setups lead (the Chronicles events years ago showcased how restricting players’ freedom of choice drove them away from matches) and it is decidedly negative. Barren matches, botched BR changes and infuriated players who often leave the game entirely and take their wallets with them…Gaijin has a lot to lose and very little to gain standing by a foolish, anti-freedom change such as this.
For their sake and balancing, I’d hope they see sense sooner rather than later.
Imo, 10.7 CAS balance would be perfect if it wasn’t for 11.0+ vehicles.
Sadly, Gajin is allergic to reverting stupid changes. The Afghanistan map change, the bad weather thing, the [Battle] mode ui change and ESPECIALLY the profile UI change. Those were all bad changes that received tons of backlash, but Gajin just simply ignored em and to stop players from pressing the issues harder, they simply announced new bad changes for ppl to complain about and let the old ones be forgotten.
So just spawn the tank
Or just do the reasonable thing and reduce the second spawn multiplier.
No, just raise the first spawn cost
Why should they? If a player wishes to spawn a tank, they should be able to spawn a tank. If a player wishes to spawn an aircraft, they should be able to spawn an aircraft. Capricious cost changes should not be a factor in either thing.
Players’ SP is theirs to spend. Setting costs outlandishly high arbitrarily deprives players of their freedom to choose what they want…and that’s about as anti-player and toxic as it gets. People want to be free to play what they wish, not be told to do something.
Earlier, someone made the unimpressive remark that ‘you should have to be good to spawn an aircraft!’…which unwittingly points out how you already can be absolutely terrible with ground vehicles and still spawn in several.
Why should ground vehicles get such low costs if air vehicles have such high costs? Obviously such a setup as that is skewed…SP costs already favored GFs before this, but now it’s just embarrassingly bent.
If aircraft costs remain in place as-is, Gaijin will have few options raise GFs’ costs as a matter of fairness…it shouldn’t be ultra-costly and highly risky to spawn aircraft if GFs are practically free.
Years ago, Gaijin tried this sort of thing in the Chronicles event (which was the grounds for the winter holiday special at the time) and it provided a clear template for exactly what can be expected to occur here.
In those events, Gaijin gave teams a set of vehicles to play (early war Soviets (BT tanks, T-26s, T-28s) and Germans (early Pz. IIIs/IVs)) along with a certain subset of those vehicles (ex. T-34s and aircraft) which were limited by quantity for the entire team (2 such vehicle spawns per team per match IIRC). Another similar event around that time featured late war Germans (with Tiger IIs) facing the Allies with a similar setup.
The effect of this artificial limitation of players’ freedom of choice was quite simple and visible: once players knew they couldn’t access the quantity limited vehicles they sought (air and ground (T-34s and/or aircraft)), they simply abandoned the match altogether…which usually meant their team would end up outnumbered and defeated.
The effect here would be far more, given that it’s not contained to an event or a limited time but (at the moment) a feature of how the game plays. Everything points to similar trends occurring now… and that should concern anyone and everyone interested in balance.
It doesn’t bode well for anti-ODL efforts…that will probably skyrocket and you can’t really blame them for it: they have no obligation to remain in a match where they’re being denied their freedom of choice.