Can we stop throwing bones to air abusers in ground realistic?

[O_HOgameplay]

@PointyPuffin

Correct me if I’m wrong, since I don’t play that mode, but aren’t aircraft in Ground AB linked to spawn events, during which any player can choose to spawnn an aircraft without even having to lose his tank with the only limiting factor being teammates that have pushed the button faster? And without the need to research any air tree?

And what does this have to do with the lines you quoted?

@warrior412

Yours, not mine, and people see that. You’re trashing yourself, not me.

LOL.

@warrior412

That’s the most intelligent and mature response you could muster, huh?

Hmm, who was going on a nice tangent with this “insulting” thing?
Again the double standards.

@English_Ham

I love cas

I mean not hard to see why…

@ULQ_LOVER

Why would they need to be?

If someone wants to use vechicle which doesn’t have any role in said game, let him be.

This “argument” is used often by them. Like there would be a handful of SPAA, that would be absolutely useless in TO (they could still scout tho), so because of that 5-10 or so, everyone must suffer.

@Laserdestroy

It would only make sense to remove the vehicles with no purpose.

They would have a use in the “combined” mode.

@GoneToTheAether

Thank you for pointing out a couple examples of the Pandora’s Box that would open if Gaijin seriously attempted TO.

No. This is simply BS.

@GoneToTheAether

Fighter-only mode

@GoneToTheAether

Fighter-free mode

Isn’t air basically already this?
Regardless, you do not have to fight a different army branch in Air, while TO mode is needed, because there is a different army branch that is significantly stronger than the one the mode is named on.

@GoneToTheAether

Old Armor Meta mode

???
Another M-51 OP please remove it “argument”?

@GoneToTheAether

Bluewater Only mode

What would be the issue with coastal in naval?

@GoneToTheAether

Chinese ZSU-57/2 HVAP

You mean the shell that has the same(ish)/worse pen than APHE?

@GoneToTheAether

Use of Simulator’s SP system: 1000SP at game start, no ability to earn more. Puts an end to cap & fly BS, allows all aircraft as first spawns so both teams can counter each other’s CAS with CAP fighters. We cannot ever balance CAS as long as it remains a powerup.

This would be horrible. Imagine getting spawncamped by CAS at the start of the match that you can not counter because they have long range flying dildos…

@GoneToTheAether

Then, anyone who wants to try crying about “CAS OP” must first answer “why aren’t you using or attempting to learn the counters?”

Because SPAAs are not effective, and only air can effectively counter it ->need to grind another tech tree.
It still does not change the fact, that if you die to it, you had no chance to fight back or defend yourself.

@ULQ_LOVER

Still don’t get why You don’t want to make everything better for everyone.

Because he knows that with TO implemented, his easy and free ground kills would disappear.

@Laserdestroy

Absolutely correct, 500m, but only in one small spot above the breach and not the entire turret.

All the 76 and 57mm versions have 15mm turret roof, not just over the breech.

@Laserdestroy

So it would take multiple .50s to kill a single crewmember, headshots or not.

Not just one, but most of the time many of them. Machineguns have this interesting feature, called “multiple shots in a second”…

@GoneToTheAether

the existence of that mode cannot and should not be used as an excuse for other unit types to get modes “of their own.

Why so?

@GoneToTheAether

Idk if you’ve played Air RB recently, but it sucks.

So is that an indication that TO would suck too? Because this is some high level BS there.

[warrior412]

@O_HOgameplay

LOL

It isn’t funny that you’ve embarrassed yourself and proven the stereotypes many hold of TO advocates.

Those things (as done by others previously) are likely big reasons TO isn’t here today…it was on the scope in late 2019.

@O_HOgameplay

Hmm, who was going on a nice tangent with this “insulting” thing?
Again the double standards.

There’s no double standard, as I never resorted to such petty insults as you…I simply noted facts.

Facts and context =/= insults

@O_HOgameplay

Because he knows that with TO implemented, his easy and free ground kills would disappear

The humorous parts of this are twofold:

• The “easy/free” talk…only when people make it so is it true. Getting outplayed and defeated doesn’t mean the other guy had it easy.

• This empty boasting about TO: it hasn’t even been able to attract enough interest from its supporters to have get rally put together but it’s gonna supplant WT’s premise? lmao

The unrealistic hype of TO’s prospects is probably another reason Gaijin recoiled back in 2019…while the idea undeniably has some interest, the endless and inevitably over-the-top inflation of TO probably gave Gaijin pauseand made them weary of committing to what they’d assessed was a “niche” interest.

Free LPT: if you keep bragging about (TO’s) size, it’s gonna make people wonder.

[JeruzalemisREAL]

@GoneToTheAether

Then, anyone who wants to try crying about “CAS OP” must first answer “why aren’t you using or attempting to learn the counters?”

CAS is OP. in the sense that a single vehicle can carry numerous armaments. every bomb dropped near a tank can potentially kill it. every mg on the jet can potentially penetrate roofs. especially on higher br, where armor is even thinner due to the numerous ifv’s. a single vehicle with the ability to kill any tank at any position at any time. that is the unbalance we are fighting here. even when “killing” a plane, shooting off the wings. the tail. it still keeps its ability to drop bombs somehow. the cockpit of the pilot is shot to pieces. there is literally no button left to drop the bomb. yet the bomb can still be dropped.

what is their counter. a petty roof mg? if a regular spaa is already having difficulty properly aiming and shooting down airplanes, you expect random people to do it with a coaxial? its obvious your lack in tanking makes you over confident in your supposed knowledge about them. if you can speak that easy of a hard thing to do.

we better not forget that spaa’s only gain the ability to track planes from 8.0 and onwards. and even then, radar still isnt a sure fire way to properly counter jets. since they only have to wiggle for a little bit. i guess they have the ability to learn something other than crash landing their bombs on me.

if we only want to drive tanks, why would we want to fly? a counter to fly is a fly? dont make me laugh. if i have trouble shooting down planes, that simply means i have to play more spaa, learn more about spaa, and learn how to shoot down jets more efficient and ruin their ability to have an easy kill.

but hell, it would certainly help if gaijin didnt discourage us to it. you know how freaking hard it is to reach a normal score with just shooting down planes? you take out an enemies ability to an overpowered vehicle, and gaijin had set the multiplier in such a way you get LESS points for it? and what is an spaa going to do if there are no planes? you basically tell a player to just waste 15 minutes of his time picking his nose. spaa needs some kind of AP belt just in case.

[PointyPuffin]

It is very simple: you have called CAS unfair and I have asked what exactly is unfair about something that has the same availability to all players.

But your answer is already enough. It shows that you admktted that you know I am right, thank you!

[PointyPuffin]

How should he know? He isn’t even playing this gamemode.

Btw: I am still waiting for them to post an example of these supposed “bones” that get thrown towards air (ab)users…

[markimash]

In terms of RB, scouting is probably a big one. Their plan of adding the spawn detection for the air spawn could be one.

I would be fine if they removed the sp reduction that scouting gives and upped the reward instead.

[БЕИ]

Although he is an arcade main, he does make a lot of good points for GRB mains who were sick of dealing with CAS when they don’t want to, he was like someone I wouldn’t even know he didn’t play GRB much. The point is, people hate feeling helpless against CAS when they just to play the survival game in their tank, I mean what are you gonna do in your Leopard 2A4 when the SU-25K comes after you? die. They will order a pizza and request to not have the pineapples bro.

[Oldie-SE]

One problem is that there are tools that help against this helplessness. But no matter how often you make suggestions, no matter how constructive they are, you are bitten off.
I myself was at the point where many players were. With the feeling that they couldn’t do anything about the bombs and everything. Then I sat down and learnt to deal with it. I took the tips from the forum and put them into practice.
Today I no longer have a problem with CAS. I know what I can do about it and which tool is best suited for when.
A small example: If a lot of aeroplanes are approaching at once, I use the SPAA because I can usually hide well with it and strike at the right moment.
If the enemies come one after the other, I take an agile fighter plane and knock them out of the sky.
If there’s nothing more to do above, I usually mark enemies with the MGs to act as a kind of aerial reconnaissance.
If I hang bombs under my wings, it’s for an attack. I don’t fly back to get the next ones straight away. I stay on the ground to fend off other aircraft.
What is my point? As long as there is no TO-mode, the players only have the following options. Use SPAA or fighter planes to fight CAS, learn when the first planes appear and react in time.
Otherwise I have a nice idea. You can invite me to a squad for a small fee and I’ll fight the planes ^^

[БЕИ]

@Oldie-SE

You can invite me to a squad for a small fee and I’ll fight the planes ^^

What? not… not for free? I thought doing something one enjoyed doing was considered a blessing, not treating it like a job which one wouldn’t do if it wasn’t for monetary payment. :P

[Oldie-SE]

So far no squad has tried to get me ^^ … I’m probably too controversial here in the forum xD

[БЕИ]

Am still quite new here, only find a few guys with lizard’s profile photo being mean to me.

[Oldie-SE]

You mean Pointy? Pointy is a good guy and had a very clear view of things. You need a thick skin in the forum, it’s just a bit rough here sometimes.

[БЕИ]

There is another one I think, don’t exactly remember the name, my first impression was he was way too hostile to arcade mains lol and then all lizards I find here seem to be against the idea of TO mode, it’s like WWE all over again, there are two sides of players, I treated the CAS advocates being the heel, and TO advocates being the face.

[Oldie-SE]

It may seem that many people are against a TO mode. This is sometimes not true. Many simply recognise the current situation. And the current situation is that there are absolutely no indications that point to a TO mode in the near future.
I myself am also in favour of a TO-mode. I would also play it from time to time. But the most important point in favour of a TO-mode for me would be that peace finally returns here and the community really becomes a community again.
There is currently a lot of division and toxic behaviour here.

[PointyPuffin]

Oh, I am also hostile to Arcade mains demanding changes in RB. ;P

The other Lizard might be Flak Dancer

And I am not hostile to the idea of a TO mode. I just find the argumentation of most of its advocates ludicrous. Just look at this topic’s name. Those who play the entire game get labeled as “abusers”

[EddieVanHalo-live]

That is because both parties have allowed themselves to get into stupid slanging matches rather than address the point.

[Wishie7119]

Can we stop throwing bones to air abusers in ground realistic?

When everyone stops throwing money at gaijin. Hell might freeze over before then

[БЕИ]

Based on my observation there are currently more players who want a TO mode than ones who are against it, you see the mixed battle defenders are always the same usual suspects, always the same 10-15 persons (which includes the incredibly unhelpful bunch that says go play other game, skill issues or wrong game bro) while the ones who started a thread and complaints about CAS and request for its removal/game mode is always created by different person. I see there is no reason not to add a TO mode at this point when so many want it, when the thing goes live they can even steal some players from WoT who knows they ended up playing mixed battles instead of TO? you win some you lose some, but I see Gaijin will benefit the most if they add a TO mode to keep some of us happy, I believe I’ve spent an excess of $1000 at this game and for some reason had stopped renewing my premiums since about a year ago, reason being I grew tired of certain part of the gameplay (mainly CAS) and don’t play the game as often as before, now it has gotten a lot easier to not play anymore.

I also become a big fan of certain posters, mainly ULQ_Lover because we have the same opinions, then I become a big fan when he makes claims and then proceeds to back up the claim with a video to prove his points when asked, unlike most people who just choose to disappear from the conversation.

What a bro, once they implemented the TO mode I already decided he has a lot to do with it so mark my words, I will send him a coupon of a rare vehicle as a gift. So hopefully players who wants a different thing finally got what they wanted.

[Oldie-SE]

I respect ULQ as well. Even though he is now back on my ignore list because of his rather disrespectful way of turning certain things so that they correspond to his narrative even though they clearly speak against it. Nevertheless, I have great respect for the achievements he shows in aircraft operations. Unfortunately, he has little respect for people who perform very well with SPAA and belittles them.
And I think that doesn’t help the whole topic of CAS, SPAA and co.
In the end, for me it is important that the WarThunder community comes together a little more. And if TO mode can help with that, yes please, bring it on.
But I also think it’s important to mention that new balance issues will arise in this mode and I’m afraid that Gaijin isn’t very interested in additional work.
The current, untouched balance problems that apparently exist in the top tier are a clear sign of this.
We are currently experiencing one step forward and then two steps back at the same time.
My favorite suggestion is basically: First try to understand the other person why he thinks that way. Many people always assume they understand why others think this way, but they are often wrong. And these assumptions give rise to conflicts that can be avoided.
How often have I seen two people discuss things and in the end actually want the same thing. But it doesn’t work because of toxic discussion or poor self-reflection.
I have no idea how I got here thematically… forgive me for this excursion into the extreme OT xD

[EddieVanHalo-live]

@Oldie-SE

How often have I seen two people discuss things and in the end actually want the same thing. But it doesn’t work because of toxic discussion or poor self-reflection.
I have no idea how I got here thematically… forgive me for this excursion into the extreme OT xD

The answer to the OP was basically given early on as being that the TO suggestion is fine but we don’t like the people suggesting it so its not fine.