I could give you some insight on why. The map size is absolutely enormous and you wouldn’t be able to effectively use any of the gun based aa platforms, so there goes most of the games SPAA vehicles. I say this because of you can’t hit planes well in the close quarters situations of Ground AB/RB, then you wont hit anything in Air RB. The radar/irst based platforms wouldn’t be very useful either since you wouldn’t really be able to move much when compared to the Jets operational area. You think that Ground RB is bad with aircraft killing you, but if you had a top tier SPAA in Air RB you’d be absolute fish food for guided munitions. Remember, Air RB has spotting mechanics so you’re much easier to find, and add to that your limited speed to traverse any area beyond the spawn would make you a very valueable easy target to farm. I would love a chance to have player controlled AA targets to farm with my F-16 and A10A Late with Maverick missiles.
It is very very different. Mid-map AA virtually never gets kills. Even it fires at you, they usually miss by enormous margins. It is also very easy to just avoid and is usually ignored by everyone except for those few dedicated ground attackers that play Air RB. Dying to a Ju-87 and an F-16 with guided munitions is also nowhere similar. One has to get well within visual and audible range to make a successful attack and the other can fight well beyond visual and audible ranges.
I think you misunderstood what my point was, or just didn’t think hard enough. There are certainly ground pound oriented planes in Air RB, but those are the minority. Most players outfit their jets with Air superiority in mind and only slow themselves down with ground ordinance; a similar comparison to an Abrams or Sherman where you intend to fight tanks, not planes. Our player-driven SPAA could simply spawn near or around the border of the Air RB objectives or bases and allow players to pick their spawns, akin to Heli EC.
Also you missed my point with the Ju-87 and F16 comparison. If you have no means to shoot the thing down, their impact is the same. It doesn’t matter how slow the Stuka is or how far away the F-16 might be, if you are missing a single crew member or just aren’t driving a Sherman the suicide Stuka will pancake you no different from an F-16. I thought that was easy enough to understand, that I wasn’t literally comparing the lethality of a Stuka to paveways, but I suppose not.
I’ve been playing WT since air open Beta, (and certainly ground forces beta). Tank RB always had planes. I even have a video I made from the tanks OBT back in september 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSdGT2qRVrw
I know its a very cringe video, its 10 years old and I was basically a kid back then so give me a break lol, but it definitely has players flying planes in it.
The game was designed from the very start to have planes and tanks in one match.
On the flip side, Tank only players belittle and gaslight CAS players just as much, I mean look at the title to this thread, calling anyone who flies a plane in GRB “Air Abusers”.
I fully welcome gaijin adding player controlled tanks or SPAA to air RB. go for it, enjoy driving for 40km to find the air battle, and enjoy helplessly firing your M42 at tiny dots that are all dogfighting 4km up in the sky. And even if your SPAAs are sitting in a position to shoot enemy planes, they can just… fly away. theres nothing in ARB forcing them to fight over your ground vehicle for you to shoot at them like there is in GRB. I wonder how long it’ll last before those SPAA players don’t bother trying that game mode anymore.
Because there is a mismatch in capability present in this equation. Tank vs tank = competitive, plane vs plane = competitive, tank vs plane = uncompetitive. There is never a point in Air RB where you are required to fight spaceships, when you press battle you are fighting precisely what you want for the duration of the battle. We can argue 16v16 top-tier jets is a shitshow, and I would agree, but my point is there is no scissors for your paper in this equation. If someone is playing a tank that isn’t explicitly designed to fight aircraft, they do not have comparative recourse to fight said plane; additionally, they give up all agency on the ground battle as long as they’re using that SPAA. Even when driving an SPAA, it’s still significantly in favor of the aircraft as they are simultaneously the easiest targets to eliminate from the sky.
In every mode fighting at altitude is a death sentence, so no, but I’ve never been presented with the opportunity. If you leave ground cover to dog fight, you will get hit by radar SPAA, and if you fly above the clusterfuck in Air RB you will catch a sparrow.
At the very least, I would like aircraft in realistic battles to be somewhat realistic as well. The better jets can maintain max turn rate and altitude simultaneously and some of the more overpowered props do as well. I think if you showed a WWII pilot some warthunder footage where everyone was doing 360 loops over the ground units they’d have a heart attack. It’s just absurd.
But I feel that would be a tad too OP, so the best tactic is medium alt with GBUs and just hope I have some good CAP on my team (which is technically what hte Tornados did in the latter stages of the gulf war)
I’m not even against that being added to the game, I just think there needs to be an alternative mode called “Combined Realistic Battles” and not just Ground RB. As unrealistic as this game is we do not need more standoff ordinance. There are times when I want to fly my F-16C and clap tanks, but there are also times when I just want to play my tanks and not get clapped by F-16s. I just find it unreasonable to ask that every player grind two equally monolithic tech trees with their corresponding premiums to be competitive in one mode. It presents an unrealistic expectation for players and an unreasonable wall to climb for anyone looking at starting the game for the first time.
Oh boy, you really hurt my feelings with that one. Especially the part where you talked about how successful SPAAs could be in Air RB in response to everything I said about them. Spawn wherever you like, you’ll be a great easy target just like the two useless AA vehicles that already spawn next to bases anyways. And who would even want gameplay where, even in the top BRs with supersonic jets, that you would have to wait minutes to even have a chance to engage a target. Your little stab at Air RB players backfires spectacularly when you take two minutes to consider how boring playing AA in Air RB would be. That is beside the fact you won’t even play SPAA in the mode where it would be useful for your team.
Their impact is not at all the same. The F-16 is much more dangerous to a target because it can kill you without being detected at all. The Ju-87 can be seen/heard in its attack run and can be avoided if detected in time. If you can’t shoot them down, you can at least relocate when the slow, loud, un-maneuverable one is detected. You can’t do anything about something you aren’t aware is hunting you.
If you play CAP in ground in props up until the missile age of SPAA, you virtually can’t be hit by the gun based SPAA. If you fly CAP in Naval you can stay pretty well out of reach of any ship’s AA fire, even radar guided HEVT shells. If you play every single plane below 9.0 in Air you can fly as high as you want and never worry about a SARH missile. That is all 3 modes where you can and should fight at altitude.
At the very least, pilot only aircraft are the most realistic type of aircraft/vehicle/ship in this game. Because one person driving, loading, and firing a tank happens. Of course Warthunder footage would look absurd to a WW2 pilot, it’s a video game. All of the stuff that happens on Warthunder is absurd and unrealistic. Armored vehicles aren’t deployed without infantry support at some level, planes don’t try to attack hostile targets in enemy territory without fighter escorts, battleships don’t wait until they are 7.5km out before they start firing. Nothing about this game checks the realistic box, and ground is the 2nd worst offender behind naval.
They aren’t asking everyone to grind air and ground forces trees. That is personal choice. Planes are optional in ground battles and naval battles. Noone ever said a player had to grind aircraft ever to play ground forces. And no, contrary to your belief, you can play ground forces and counteract the aircraft without also playing aircraft.
And what does that have to do with it being a change that made aircraft a lot more vulnerable and forced players to put a little more thought into their attack?
It’s incredible to me how you can still miss my point while quoting me directly.
The difference in the planes DOES NOT MATTER. I WAS NOT COMPARING THE JU-87 TO AN F-16, but you still made the same argument again anyway. If you aren’t driving an SPAA the caliber of ordinance is irrelevant whether it’s a bomb dropping from a Stuka or a Paveway, which is fundamentally antithetical to vehicle balance and also the crux of my argument. I am highlighting the incompatibility between tanks and planes on a fundamental level. Please, read it two or three more times so I don’t have to respond to the same argument again.
You are literally highlighting the problem with playing SPAA in any context. Tank players as a collective have explained this over and over and over for YEARS I’m highlighting and bolding it so you might be able to understand it, I know its hard to comprehend even when you typed it out yourself.
Again, you literally highlighted why tanks and planes are incompatible. We know that this is the problem, that’s why we want a tank-only mode. I don’t understand how someone can walk up to the door, lick the handle, and still not comprehend how to open it, but here you are.
And there’s the gaslighting. You yourself stated three times how useless SPAA are, but can’t seem to understand why people have a problem with this game mode? Either you’re being intellectually dishonest or you’re roleplaying Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy.
well he obv had more than 70 points because he is in a damn strike plane loaded with ground ordinance.
you cant get into a plane with ground attack ability for under around… 500SP?
That battle rating is packed with CAS. Tram Intruder, Frogfoot, F-111, A4E, Fury, that new Italian paveway plane, the Milan, and a slew of tow helis. The only real air defense there is the Strela as well, which leaves most other nations unprotected. The tram and frogfoot alone absolutely stomp.
Funny because everytime I hear people on the forum say cas spam, I go main spaa at this br and hardly find any. Most matches have 1, maybe 2, enemy cas. Or just none and i waste my time.
I usually switch between strela, ozelot, and chaparral.
User experience may vary? I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. Because you played a match and there was no CAS, therefore it does not exist? In the scope of the game and population at that battle rating, there’s an absolute mountain of CAS available in that bracket and also a gaping void of SPAA other than the Strela, it’s the only thing that regularly shoots us down.
Just saying that I will often have to switch to another br range due to wasting over an hour just sitting around and not seeing any cas. It is way more than a single match.
Ozelot and chaparral are also pretty good. I really want to get the type 81 and israeli chaparral but i have a good bit of rp to go.