Camera from tank gunner sight should be forced in GRB

[Ion_Protogen]

That would make SPAA worse, but who said that was going to happen?

[SpeclistMain1]

@GoneToTheAether

If it’s not doing what it is “supposed” to do at this point, why even keep it as an option?

Fixing a good mechanic is better than removing it.

@GoneToTheAether

Much like random transmission failures on overly heavy machines, sometimes more realism is not fun.

Random transmission failure is RNG, which is not fun. Breaking barrels is purposeful, and makes light tanks (or anything with terrible armament) have the ability to survive some engagements.

@GoneToTheAether

ranging from map design being a chaotic mess favoring “rush to nearest camping spot and wait”

I’d argue it’s almost better for the heavies, as it’s harder to get behind them. I agree the design of most maps is terrible, though.

[SpeclistMain1]

@GoneToTheAether

Except barrel damage really isn’t a “good” mechanic. It’s overkill when so many other options exist to counter a heavy you can’t pen frontally.

What other option exists? Also why should a heavy be frontally invulnerable/not have weakspots (to reasonable calibers)?

@GoneToTheAether

And having that option also makes it less necessary to bother researching, much less using, specialist vehicles which can frontally pen that troublesome machine with tradeoffs in mobility or armor.

No? Non-light tanks generally get more armor and can survive more. The vast majority of the tanks that heavy players complain about can be penned by any MG in the game (except 5.56mm maybe).

@GoneToTheAether

For example, your M24 can’t reliably kill that KV-1 ZiS-5, but your M10 certainly can.

That’s not necessarily true, but you’re talking about the 3.7 M24, the 3.3 M10 GMC, and the 4.7 KV-1 (ZiS-5). Yeah, vehicles 1.0-1.3 BR below a heavy usually shouldn’t be penning.

@GoneToTheAether

Heavy with deadweight always loses a race to the commanding spots, all else being equal. If a heavy manages to get to such a known commanding spot, the opponent using light/mediums screwed up by not deciding to drive there first.

I mean I guess, but that doesn’t factor in the heavy taking the spot anyways due to tanking shots or being equally strategic and catching the light tank off guard.

[Ion_Protogen]

@GoneToTheAether

go around the heavy

Not possible if the heavy isn’t stupid.

@GoneToTheAether

bomb it

That isn’t using a tank.

@GoneToTheAether

Barrel damage is the easymode option, and its that easymode you don’t want to lose.

Imo barrels should always be destroyed if they are shot at. It makes no sense for an 88mm to shrug off a direct hit by a Russian 85mm cannon. If it gets hit, it should be destroyed.

@GoneToTheAether

If you choose not to research your derp SPGs, that shouldn’t be the heavy’s problem…

Not my fault I didn’t spawn it.

@GoneToTheAether

Nearly every complaint in support of barrel damage is about the heavy in question in a full downtier vs whatever machine has the worst possible cannon (besides SPAAG). Such as the everpresent (and ungodly annoying) “WAAAAAHHHH MUHHH JUMBOOOOO!!!” types of people, for both the 75 and 76 models of that.

If a barrel is hit head on, why shouldn’t it be damaged?

@GoneToTheAether

Why can’t the Maus drop to even 7.3, much less 7.0 alongside its near-equal T95? But muh 76 Jumbo…

The T95 is slower, and it doesn’t have a turret. 7.3 would make the Maus OP, because anyone could hold W and win if they have situational awareness.

[SpeclistMain1]

@GoneToTheAether

Let’s see:

• go around the heavy
• wait for it to push and overextend, then flank it
• bomb it
• use a specialized derp gun that can frontally pen it, akin to using a Sturer Emil to kill a Churchill VII.

1. Not a way to “counter” a heavy from shooting your light tank
2. Entirely dependent on luck
3. Not a way to “counter” a heavy tank from shooting your light tank
4. Not a way to “counter” a heavy tank from shooting your light tank

@GoneToTheAether

If you choose not to research your derp SPGs, that shouldn’t be the heavy’s problem…

It shouldn’t be the light tank’s problem you can’t hold the space bar…

@GoneToTheAether

Nearly every complaint in support of barrel damage is about the heavy in question in a full downtier vs whatever machine has the worst possible cannon (besides SPAAG).

In such a scenario the uptiered tank usually shouldn’t be able pen it frontally (besides very small weakspots), but you should still be able to break their barrel.

@GoneToTheAether

Why can’t the arguably 6.7-grade IS-3, a machine with a 5.7-grade cannon and decent mobility at best, sit at the 6.7 BR it deserves given how easily it dies to many opponents, artillery especially? But muh 75 Jumbo…

Why can’t the Maus drop to even 7.3, much less 7.0 alongside its near-equal T95? But muh 76 Jumbo…

That is why I don’t like Jumbo complainers in particular.

A lot of this are just straight-up bad opinions. The IS-3 and Maus are fine where they are.

@GoneToTheAether

You’d be surprised how often the average heavy tank user is indeed that stupid…

And?

@GoneToTheAether

CAS already exists as the “delete” button for anything. We don’t need a second option.

It still isn’t using a light tank.

@GoneToTheAether

And only a single recorded instance exists of a FRONTAL barrel hit by another tank that disabled it. Every other instance is either infantry throwing in thermite grenades into it, a tank (or AT gun) shooting through the barrel’s side, or a round defect causing a banana barrel misfire.

Do you think a 85mm tank shell won’t break a 88mm cannon barrel?

@GoneToTheAether

Yes, it actually is your fault if you didn’t spawn it and willingly chose the thing with an inferior gun. Choices have consequences, barrel damage in its current state removes those consequences and encourages use of only the same handful of machines over and over.

“You must only use things with the superior guns. If you don’t it’s your fault. You’re the one who wants to limit who can play.”

You serious?

@GoneToTheAether

such as maps forcing close-range fights 24/7

Why is this a reason against barrel damage? It’s objectively better to have an option to get out of a scenario where a lot of the streets are perpendicular to each other.

@GoneToTheAether

All the HEATFS, APDS, derp HE, and CAS would have many words with you on that.

• Name a HEATFS tank from 6.3-7.3 that can pen the Maus (besides maybe the 6614)
• APDS has even worse post-pen than HEATFS, and that’s not saying much
• I’ve never seen someone HE a Maus
• That’s not a (light) tank

[Ion_Protogen]

@GoneToTheAether

And only a single recorded instance exists of a FRONTAL barrel hit by another tank that disabled it.

And this is WT, not irl.

@GoneToTheAether

Because its terrible for a game mechanic due to several other reasons, such as maps forcing close-range fights 24/7 and gunsights positioned inside the barrel. Nevermind multiple machines with gigantic muzzle brakes - it’s hard not to hit the gun when a T32 is looking at you.

It is a good game mechanic, and my proposal is going to make it require skill to do.

[BlazeOfJoy]

Ground RB is Gajin biggest money printer since it was introduced.
This is why for 10 years we play exactly same game mode and everything gets catered to your average player. 10 minute in out games, no thinking just grind.

So something as drastic (even if I would love to see it) will never happen.

[SpeclistMain1]

@GoneToTheAether

In every case, either 1) you didn’t move to a good location when you had the chance or 2) you picked the wrong machine for the given match, be it an uptier or downtier.

1. Doesn’t change the fact that the light tank should have an option (albeit a difficult/challenging one) to not get shot.
2. Shouldn’t matter at all.

@GoneToTheAether

Not every heavy is blessed with strong-enough machine guns to melt light armor at a glance. Only US ones are, in fact.

I didn’t know 7.62mm MGs didn’t exist anymore, I’m pretty sure those are larger than 5.56mm MGs…

@GoneToTheAether

And other game mechanics make targeting this far beyond how reality allowed it, to the point where something that was a freak one-of-a-kind occurrence is the standard approach.

Which is a bad thing because?

@GoneToTheAether

This shows your lacking and shallow experience to say this.

Except the IS-3 and Maus would be completely unbalanced if they go any lower.

@GoneToTheAether

Why are you expecting a light tank to counter everything?

I asked “What other option exists? Also why should a heavy be frontally invulnerable/not have weakspots (to reasonable calibers)?” It’s implied that the tank you’re in should be enough, and specifically most people complain that light tanks aren’t completely useless except for shots that are 90.0000000000 degrees off the side.

@GoneToTheAether

Depending on where it hit and from what angle, it might do something or it might just bounce off. A round splitting a muzzle brake would not disable the gun.

A round denting, penetrating, or ripping off portions of a barrel should definitely put it out of commission.

@GoneToTheAether

If you pick a machine with a weak gun, you should be helpless if you stumble in front of something you can’t frontally pen. That simple.

Again, you’re the one limiting people’s choice in what tanks they should play.

@GoneToTheAether

M36B1/2s from multiple nations (5.7), Fiat 6614 (6.7), AUBL 74 (6.7), 2S1 (6.0), C13 T90 (7.0), ELC bis (6.0), AMX-10M (7.3), Pbv 501 (6.7), Ikv 103 (4.0!), M-51 (6.0), Zachlam Tager (6.7), Type 60 ATM (6.7), M47 (7.3), ST-A1 (6.3), ST-A2 (6.3), ST-A3 (6.7), Type 61 (6.7), Type 60 SPRG (6.7), Ratel 90 (6.3), Ratel 20 (6.7), Conway (7.0), Charioteer (6.3), FV4005 (6.3), AVRE (7.0), Type 63 (6.3), Type 62 (6.7), SU-122-54 (6.7), ASU-85 (6.3), T92 (7.0), M46 (7.0), M56 (6.7), and M50 (6.7).

I included a couple APDS slingers in there for Britain, but surely this closes the case. I didn’t even include most arty guns save the 2S1 which has HEATFS.

Tanks that can’t pen - AUBL/74, C13 T90
Tanks that can pen, but will only get one of the two gunners - M36B1, 6614, 2S1, ELC bis, Pbv 501, Ikv 103, M-51, M47, ST-A1, ST-A2, ST-A3, Type 61, Type 60 SPRG, Ratel 90, Conway, Charioteer, Type 63, Type 62, SU-122-54, ASU-85, T92, M46, M56, M50
Tanks that can pen and oneshot it (or can kill both gunners) - AMX-10M, Zachlam Tager, Type 60 ATGM, Ratel 20, FV4005 (must get very lucky with volumetric), AVRE (must get very lucky with volumetric)

Notice how most of these vehicles are still helpless even when they pen the Maus?

[Peasant_wb]

Watch this video. This man casually kills every King Tiger and Jagdtiger he comes by from the front by one tapping their MG port. This is ridiculous.

Spreading Freedom at a Snail's Pace | T95

[Daffan]

Increase in skill so its a good change idea

[EddieVanHalo-live]

Aral sea ,I loved that map

[soymilkman]

Just play arcade if you don’t want forced gunner sight :p

Not like that is the only things that seperate the two modez anyways.

[SpeclistMain1]

Just play sim if you want to be forced to use the gunner’s sight. Realistic is meant to be a balance between sim and arcade, and being forced to use the gunner’s sight should be a sim-only thing.

[Mistdevourer]

This game mode is called « realistic », not « less arcade » so it should be realistic.

Be able to shoot a 2cm weakspot at 1km only because barrel sight is absolutely not realistic.

[SpeclistMain1]

The game mode is called “realistic” and not “simulator,” it has enough realism to not be arcade but not enough realism to be sim.

[glock991]

Besides I don’t wouldn’t be as much as a game changer as people think it would be long term especially when you can still aim third person and use custom sights that easily account for it, average players would adjust to it over time and decent/above average players would be mostly un effected just more of a annoyance

[Mistdevourer]

Simulator ? Even simulation mode is not even simulator level …

You want real simulator ?

• Commander can be visible and be shot when use commander view
• Can only shoot with gunner (can’t with commander view)
• Can’t control turret with mouse but with up/down and left/right
• Much more smoke when shoot and can’t see through

Etc etc …

Si no. Only gunner sight when aim is not simulation level …

[SpeclistMain1]

@glock991

Besides I don’t wouldn’t be as much as a game changer as people think it would be long term especially when you can still aim third person

You can’t be in third person when stuck using the gunner sight.

@Mistdevourer

Only gunner sight when aim is not simulation level

Sim in War Thunder: Gunner sight is forced.

Yes, forcing the gunner sight is one of the things that simulator entails in War Thunder.

[An_Pigeon]

Sim , only allows to use specific tanks from specific eras, which in ground rb i incredibly tedious due to having tanks that are captured or lend lease.

Now forcing to use the gunner sight isnt actually a bad idea it would actually make things change away from the zoomer, cod mentality gameplay weve slipped further and further into.

Further, the way scout drones work, the way spotting works and fighting in cities isnt realistic anyways, GRB slowly but surely is sliding more arcade style, just look at air RB its now just basically AAB+, due to any suggestions of realism just being kicked down.

[MattS93]

The thing I like most about the gunner sight view is the huge puff of smoke when you fire the gun. If implementing gunner sight is too big a leap, I’d love to have the option to turn on gun smoke when it fires from the boresight view. Currently just watching the round go downrange is kind of lame.