It’s about time to admit that the multipathing changes did not result in realistic BVR combat in sim EC, anyone who thinks that is delusional. Realistic BVR involves taking time to waste opponents resources in order to close in and secure a kill. This is rendered pointless in a game mode where there are endless respawns, resulting in constant stream of planes with fresh missiles. There is nothing realistic about it. Even the largest maps are too small for the weapons we have access to. All that the multipathing nerf achieved is to create a meta where 90% of people rush forward and fire their ARH/SARH at the first target they see. And lets not even mention the 12.7 hellhole where one side has access to endless fox 3 spam while the other is left trying to dodge them the entire game, it could have been one of the best BR brackets, instead it’s the worst and most unbalanced one.
I dont see how spawns have anything to do with bvr. Dont you get the kill? so what does them spawning again have to do with it?
In my observations, all reducing multipath did was make people mow the ground harder but there is still bvr in sim so idk what youre talking about
The main problem is the maps are small and fulled with aimbot SPAAs and enemy jets, even with those 128x128km maps. Whenever you kill an enemy, he just hits full afterburners and tries to kill you 1 minute later you killed him. Gaijin should just increase map size for top tier (especially the maps width) and decrease player size (and respawn cooldown would be really awesome). Because this isn’t WW2 anymore and nobody is producing 100ml$ jets as fast as they produced props in WW2. Modern air combat is designed around SAM and limited amount of jets, not 16v16 spamraam fest.
16x16 on just few times bigger maps - will be fine.
Like 256x256
Btw, 32x32 on 400x400(±) will be also good.
If I did my math right, even a 600km x 600km map would be traversible from one end to the other in a little under 30 minutes at 343 m/s or mach 1 at sea level.
Only in one way, but yes
So, one flight will be one hour maybe?
you only need to fly to the half way point in most cases, so 15 minutes from take off to reaching the battlefield.
And you will be out of gas well before that, trying to stay above mach 1 at SL the entire time.
that was just a point of reference, you can comfortable cruise along at 1 percent afterburner at 10km above mach while slowly sipping fuel.
And you will burn half of your gas or more just getting to altitude and the fun doing that. Heaven forbid you actually end up in an extended dogfight after that. You will spend the next hour trying to crawl your way back to base on 40% throttle and fumes.
Maps like Spain, Vietnam, and Afghanistan are plenty large. They only need to continue their current trend of enlarging maps and will be fine. Hell even Denmark is fine when the airfields end up in opposite corners.
BVR combat is made far worse off by a total lack of ECM and is entirely invalidated in WT by flying in the dirt. You’re right in pointing out that the maps are far too small, multipathing still invalidates BVR and radar missiles entirely, but countermeasures don’t work particularly well in top-tier either. My experience in my F-15C is that 95% of my missiles miss my target, and I’m forced to fly in two dimensions only within 100ft of the ground.
There’s a few fundamental problems all contributing to top-tier sim being a more frustrating and anti-fun experience than a fun one, but respawns are nowhere near the top of that list.
Really big maps would be boring but awesome to play. So players would learn to use afterburners only for emergency situations and not just regular thrust to travel around. CFTs and drop tanks would finally have a real use. But i would like to see some maps like 200x400km so players can spread around the map and do some ground missions. Also some small maps like 100x200km would be cool.
We should all work together and get multi-pathing completely removed from the game so we can experience true BvR Combat.
actually it must be, but just few meters, mustnt help against missiles
That’s a horrible idea, it would just cause even more of a powercreep than now.
Right now, the only hope for red side is to cope and ride the dirt till they get closer cause nothing can contest the 120.
Removing the only safe guard these planes have such a bad idea, look beyond the “hurr bvr bvr bvr” see what impact it’ll have on the mode
Red side players will just have to learn how to notch or stop playing top tier.
Dude whats the point of playing Simulator if it is not realistic? Red team has M2Ks, F-15s (Japan), F-16s (France, Japan) and the Gripens (Sweden, Italy). But if you think Soviet planes suck against NATO planes, that would be just lore accurate War Thunder.
Jokes aside, Soviet planes are not underperforming against NATO planes with R-27Es, R-77s and R-73s. Especially R-27Es are too powerfull in 12.0-13.0 brackets. Maybe instead of going head-on while receiving a launch warning they should actually take proper defense tactics such as notching, cranking and going cold because thats every other person does. Multi-pathing just ruins the BVR for all BR ranges. I remember fighting against floggers in a F-4S before the FM and MP nerfs and watching all those missiles (my only reliable weapon) just slam to the ground. I lost many dogfights because of this. They had better IR missiles and FM and this felt awfull. Same thing still happens, but less players dare to do it and those who still does it ends up realising that they can’t MP a sidewinder or just slam to the ground while trying to evade my missiles (and most of the time they ragequit). I don’t play AirSim because i care about getting a dopamine rush when a red text appears on my screen, i play for plane variety and realistic engagements. When someone abuses an unrealistic feature (for very top tier), i just don’t want to play anymore.
Red side should just not exist in sim then if the players aren’t willing to not rely on a crutch mechanic to save them.
AMEN
Multipath should only effective for helies who hovering between trees, not for the fixed-wing fast movers
MP should further drop down to 30~25m
How does respawns matter in this sense? BVR makes perfect sense on the DCS pvp servers, and those have respawns too