I see @simsimkek is jumping topics posting contrarian provocations with anti-player stances as usual.
We say Israeli vehicles have flaws, he comes in calling you and I unreasonable, noam.
His post portrays Israel tanks as perfect with no flaws.
Harder and more limited than tanks with rear engines.
The sabra has the same pen at 9.7. It sits at 9.7 because the armor isn’t great and bad mobility, kind of like the Merkava at 11.3
But at 11.3, the 589 mm of pen are no longer impressive. You combine 11.3 gun with 9.0 armor and 9.7 mobility, still at 11.3? Nonsense.
The Sabra has an 11.3 gun with 9.0 armor and 8.3 mobility, sitting at 9.7. Makes way more sense.
Nah, it’s shit. Yeah you can still get good results in the mk 3 if you’re skilled because the gun hits like a truck usually, but everything else is just subpar. Also is extremely difficult not to get hit in this thing since it’s as big as an house, it’s almost impossible to be sneaky, the combination of a big silhouette and absolutely no freaking armor is what makes this tank so miserable to play imo.
I tend to compare the Mk.3 to the Al Khalid or MBT-2000, as well as the Obj.292. Here’s a fairly thorough comparison I made a while back.
I have no idea why only 12.0 Merkavas got a reload buff when 11.3 M1A1 got it as well ?
Right now, M1A1 is the outright better Merkava that sits at the same BR, that’s kind of sad.
Compression is never the answer, BUT a quick fix of pulling all Mk.3s down to 11.0 will hardly affect anyone who faces it while making the Mk3 more viable. If the devs were to lower It’s BR to 11.0, the new vehicles who face it will be:
M3A3 Bradley - 800mm penning ATGM, no problem handling Mk3
Radkampf - DM33 easily penning Mk3
Leo2K - DM33 easily penning Mk3
Sprut - 3BM60 Lolpenning Mk3
Desert warrior - 800mm penning ATGM
ZBD04 - 600mm penning the entire front hull of the Mk3
Dardo and VCC80/30 - 800mm penning ATGM
These vehicle have no armor. Putting them against the Mk3 won’t make a slight difference to them, as they are already being lolpenned by any round that sits in this BR bracket. AND, they can still easily defeat the Mk3, because of its weaknesses.
It would also benefit the Israeli TT by giving a lineup to 11.0 (currently, only the Namer Tzrikhon is 11.0)
And it will still be uptiered to 12.0, so i think its balanced
Of course its just a band aid, and DECOMPRESSION is the key to having just a bit more fun in this conquest of a game…
Mk.3 has to go down to 10.3, not 11.0. It’s weaker than M1 and Leo 2A4. But I would compremise on 10.7 for sure.
If the armor on it is to be buffed, I would agree on 11.0.
10.3 is way way too low, do you actually think its sensible T-72A, leo 1a5, ztz96 Strv 105 need to face 589mm of pen?
This has to be a joke right?
I want Israeli tanks to be competitive as much as the next guy, but not outright op
Mk.3 has 9.3 level of mobility and armor. At 10.3, it would be but a glass cannon. Therefore, to not make people shout ‘Israel Bias’, it would be moved to 10.7, alongside the Leo 2A4 - which is superior to it - and the T-80UD, which is even more superior to it.
Or instead, it could be buffed to be realisticly armored and equipped, and then still be put down to 11.0, due to still being rather inferior to most 11.3 tanks (and being a tank from the hell 1980’s, so why would anyone make it face tanks from the 2010’s?).
dude merkava armor are trolly as fuck it does not need to go 10.3
around 11.0 is good or maybe 10.7 but it does not go 10.3
Trolly? Yes.
Consistant? No.
It doesn’t matter if you get one-shoted or two-shoted at (although, from my experience it’s one-shot most of the time). You are dead nonetheless, since any hit kills gun/breech/gunner+commander/turret ring+engine.
It’s consistant of being helpless, unless the enemy is an idiot.
That’s the point. IRL the armor should be twice as effective.
The armor level is OK-ish. The only source I know of rating the armor states 450mm KE for the turret and 350-400 for the front hull. Its kinda what we already have. The problems with Mk.3 lie elsewhere:
Thanks to M322 and being constantly uptiered to 12.0, the tank is meant to play like a glass cannon.
Nevertheless forcing a glass cannon to start the grind with an extremely bad round for the purpose (HEAT) is borderline criminal.
Instead the tank should start stock with M321 APFSDS.
Nevertheless 11.3 is no place for it. Should be lowered to 11.0 or even 10.7 so that its not condemned to uptiers.
In WT it’s horrible. IRL it’s more over 400 mm KE in the hull and turret, being fully capable of resisting 3BM42 all over the front (apart from the LFP, where the enging block absorbs the damage). In the game, however, you can get penatrated frontally and even one-shoted at by 2S38 and even 30 mm shells from the front.
IRL, yes, and even more. Not in WT.
In-game the UFP has 180-250 mm KE protection max. The turret has ~350 KE protection max.
… Which is no more than avarage at 11.3 BR…
With no mobility to get to a position and no gun depression to snipe…
A miswriting or something I’m not yet aware of? Never heard of M321 before… Do you mean M322?
For once we agree.
Again we agree!
More like 10.7 or 10.3, it is legitimately wotse than any 10.7 MBT.
AFAIK M321 was the first 120mm APFSDS used by Israel. Its listed on many sites but I never found an actual brochure or concrete information on it.
But we are mostly in agreement, they want you to play the Mk.3 like a glass cannon but they don´t give you the tools to do it. So yeah, perhaps the armor needs a little tunning (but we are kinda scarce on sources for that) but even so it won´t make much of a difference at 11.3. Perhaps I could accept the current BR if Mk.3 had M322 stock and M338 as a researcheable. However I rather have M321 as stock and see the BR lowered to 11.0 or 10.7.
