With further reading into the Flight manual it is absolutely clear that the harriers are underperforming in game in almost all aspects including time to climb, top speed, and turn rate and overload. I now believe fundamentally this is due to the way Gaijin has implemented the Harriers thrust and drag values (the harrier has around 1.5 times the drag value as it would in the real world.) This will obvious lead to lots of inaccuracies in the FM and they are not minor at this point now. I believe the best way gaijin can fix this is to divide the Harriers engine into 2 thrust thresholds, jet-born flight (nozzles 20 degrees or more) and conventional flight (20 degrees until fully aft) with the aft nozzles having the Max continuous and Max trust values from the manual being 58.7Kn and 73.2Kn but the Max rating was limited to 15 minutes and would become the WEP throttle value. The jet-bourn profile would include its dry and wet lift capabilities for its hover ability with water being a fuel added to the game that goes down when using the wet thrust input. Here is a link to a previous post with more details about turn performance. Harrier write up regarding turn performance with another test regarding initial rate of climb the AV-8A with the 15 min max thrust setting can climb up to 10,000 feet in about 30 seconds. This climb rate is 101.5 M/S with a lot less thrust. In game at 90% throttle with the same climb table based on the 350knot climb until inception of .81 Mach you will climb at like 20-30 m/s
What this leads to:
The harriers drag model would need to be reworked reducing the harriers drag value until it can comfortably reach .915 Mach with its 58.7Kn rating. In the game currently it needs a whole 32Kn more to reach the same speed. The harriers turn performance needs a reasonable buff as I have posted about already and have all the relevant Data and tests to prove my theory. Along with this I added more information from the manual into my bug report that is linked here. 1st Gen harriers FM is incorrect // Gaijin.net // Issues
Summary:
The Harrier jets, in this case only really the generation 1 harriers to I have the data for, all need to have there drag multiplier reduced significantly as well as a rework and reduction in thrust. This would also likely fix the issues with its AOA and turn rate.
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Might actually make the harrier 1g viable again if this goes through. in which case hell yea.
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the harrier has a crazy hige heat signature for an aircraft with no reheat systems too. If i remember correctly war thunder models all four exhaust nozzles as if they were engines themselves even though (if I remember correctly) the rear nozzles are only cold air from the compressor.
the plane feels like a flying brick whenever its flying slower than 600mph even though it actually has some of the best low altitude low speed performance of all the jets represented in game.
Give us ASRAAM on the harrier gr7 too pls it actually had them and it would be better than a top tier SPAAMRAAM harrier that’s worse overall
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Yes Morvran_ has a bug report coving some of this and i have some data from rolls Royce about the nozzles. The rear nozzles under max throttle will never even exceed 700 degrees C.
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This is most definitely one of the more important issues currently. Probably in the top five or ten issues, behind better maps and game modes of course.
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Underperforming by 3-4 degrees a second sustained. Among other issues.
they can a do hit that speed but only in arcade because the engines cant handle that much power for long enough, not even the flight model its just an overheating issue
LMAO, the max level flight speed at sea level should be around .96 Mach 740 Mph or 1200 KPH.
The two seat trainer Harrier can do .92 with what would be 60% in game throttle.
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The overheating is correct its the way the thrust is modeled that is incorrect.
never said it was wrong I said the engine overheating is why it almost never hits that speed
It tops out at .93 no matter how hard its pushed.
ive pushed it faster than that in a shallow dive, besides you listed .915 as the top speed and that’s lower than .93 also the harrier isn’t meant to go supersonic under normal circumstances
I didn’t say that’s its top speed. I said it should reach that at its lower thrust setting. In a shallow dive its said to do 1.25 Mach. Level flight at sea level with 60% throttle it should do .92-3 depending on model. With a higher thrust rating you get the faster speeds that are 630 knots plus.
it does it just takes a longer time to accelerate
Show me a harrier doing .96 mach at sea level… in level flight
so you say 9.3 and then change it to 9.6… FYI the harrier isn’t meant to go 9.6 is horizontal flight if it does then its being pushed to WEP for a long time. and the airframe isn’t the limiting factor its the fact that the engines don’t have a very efficient cooling system
.93 is its top speed in game with WEP. Its top speed should be around .96 this is what it can do IRL. The level flight envelopes that are seen in the flight manuals are based off of the engines 15 min max thrust setting. After that you can set the engine to normal lift dry and go even faster then .93 mach. IRL ofc.
In game to even reach .93 Mach you need to use WEP or short lift wet.
So no nothing to do with cooling it can do .96 Mach safely for 2.5 minutes.
