British Helicopter Tech Tree - Discussion Topic

[DevilO6]

AGM-114 Hellfire - Badly underperforming?

Yesterday I have fired a quite a few Hellfire missiles and I was quite surprised how they performed. At 7km range Hellfire: were unable to hit moving tank - very little maneuverability were undershooting quite a bit - laser on a turret, missile hitting the track (side shot) were hitting targets at very low angle took forever to reach the target So I did some more test firing and some research and I have identified these problems with Hellfire: They are unreasonably slow. In game it takes …

[warhead_beast]

Gazelle: The British Army's 'sports car of the air that could bite back'

[AVROVULCANXH558]

Anyone ever heard of these references?

There are photographs in the Putnam’s Westland volume ( Westland Aircraft Since 1915 , Derek James, 1991) showing two Whirlwinds of JEHU in Army markings.

1. A Whirlwind 2 (XK969/‘D’) with ‘an experimental machine-gun installation’ , what looks like a water-cooled Vickers machine gun, on tripod, mounted to fire at 90 degrees to the direction of flight, through the main door.
2. A Whirlwind 2 (XK970/‘E’) with two forward-firing box launchers for ‘small air-to-ground milssiles’ ( I assume Vigilant) suspended from the hoist mounting.

Both photgraphs are credited to Fred Ballam.

From:

British armed helicopters

[AVROVULCANXH558]

Another Whirlwind with SS.11s, this time an HAR.9 apparently

From the SPF link posted previously

[FlyingOstridge]

British H-34/Mi-4.
Considering it’s a better H-34 yeah.

[da12thmonkey]

Was able to find some additional digital images from googling the aircraft’s serial

Whirlwind HAR.9 XL898 with SS.11 launchers

Port side mount looks different. Maybe the rocket platform previously seen on the HAS.7, or just a shield to deflect the exhaust gas

Was also able to find an image of another HAR.9 with SS.11. This time XN386 equipped with live missiles!

The warhead of another SS.11 appears to be visible on the other side.
You can see XN386 still has the mounting point for the SS.11 bracket where it resides today in Doncaster at the South Yorkshire Aircraft Museum. This isn’t present on every HAR.9, so may be helpful for spotting serials of other Whirlwinds (potentially other Marks) that were modified for carrying weapons

[AVROVULCANXH558]

@da12thmonkey

You can see XN386 still has the mounting point for the SS.11 bracket where it resides today in Doncaster at the South Yorkshire Aircraft Museum. This isn’t present on every HAR.9, so may be helpful for spotting serials of other Whirlwinds (potentially other Marks) that were modified for carrying weapons

Could it be a test helicopter then for SS.11 launch trials?

It seems the HAR.9s could only carry two SS.11s. How many did the HAR.10s carry?

[da12thmonkey]

@AVROVULCANXH558

Could it be a test helicopter then for SS.11 launch trials?

I don’t think so. There are at least 3x HAS.9 airframes with this modification. All appear to have been HMS Endurance’s helicopter at some point, operating in the Antarctic (penguin decal): XL898, XN386 and XN359.

@AVROVULCANXH558

How many did the HAR.10s carry?

4x according to research presented in this thread.

The mounting for the HAR.10/HC.10 shown on the photo you got, appears to be different to the HAR.9 mounting. With a platform suspended from the side of the fuselage similar to the Wessex weapon platform, rather than a simple socket. I haven’t been able to find photos of the Mk.10s that were apparently modified for Nord (XP301, XP332, XP358 and XP393) showing a semi-permanent mount like the HAR.9 have

[AVROVULCANXH558]

@da12thmonkey

I don’t think so. There are at least 3x HAS.9 airframes with this modification. All appear to have been HMS Endurance’s helicopter at some point, operating in the Antarctic (penguin decal): XL898, XN386 and XN359.

Interesting. Another thing I find odd is that these were done for helicopters from HMS Endurance.

@da12thmonkey

4x according to research presented in this thread.

The mounting for the HAR.10/HC.10 shown on the photo you got, appears to be different to the HAR.9 mounting. With a platform suspended from the side of the fuselage similar to the Wessex weapon platform, rather than a simple socket. I haven’t been able to find photos of the Mk.10s that were apparently modified for Nord (XP301, XP332, XP358 and XP393) showing a semi-permanent mount like the HAR.9 have

Interesting, maybe it shows tow different programs running at roughly the same time.

Maybe we should consider writing to Leonardo UK and/or the Helicopter Museum, amongst others, into whether they have further information

[da12thmonkey]

@AVROVULCANXH558

Interesting, maybe it shows tow different programs running at roughly the same time.

The modification to Mk.9s seems like it was probably done at the end of the 1960s. There are photos of XL898, XN386 and XN359 in 1966, 1967 and 1969 respectively without the Nord mounting point that’s visible in photos of the same aircraft in later years. I think 1968 is probably when the first aircraft was equipped since this is apparently when XL898 deployed to the Antarctic with Endurance.

So this would be several years after the RAF started using the missiles on Mk.10s in South-East Asia (1962-1964 IIRC) and is likely why there are different engineering solutions to how the missiles were mounted. RAF one resembling the Wessex arrangement from the same 1962-1964 time period, and the Navy one being similar to the arrangement seen on Scout, Wasp (and Alouette, Huey, Gazelle) that entered service later.

[FlyingOstridge]

Is this thread just for British Helicopters or can we include commonwealth here? If so here’s my suggestion
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/sikorsky-mh-60-seahawk-helicopters.html&ved=2ahUKEwj4h_DP3c6CAxVdWUEAHZo9Am4QFnoECF8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2tTCOEsBnmPvnR1ikVUxPk
https://www.navy.gov.au/aircraft/mh-60r-seahawk

[TerikG2014]

Sea hawk is a bit redundant as we can get the Westland Blackhawk with all the cool toys

[SuTa_basuto]

Westland/Sikorsky WS-70 Blackhawk - Passed for Consideration - War Thunder - Official Forum

[skalleornenskall]

Is it possible that the next update will flesh out the British helicopter tree?

[DevilO6]

Chnaces of that are the same as Cr2 getting fixed next update.

[FlyingOstridge]

It’s either one or the other. And I’m betting on everyone except for Britain to get a large fix.

[AVROVULCANXH558]

My Westland Commando Mk.1 suggestion got opened, please have a look:

Westland Wessex Commando Mk.1: Welcome to the Jungle

poll Introduction: The Wessex is an icon of British helicopter history, representing a well-respected workhorse which served well in the many roles it served in. One of the roles was Commando assault, with the HU.5 being quite famous in this role. However, it was preceded by a little-known, and often forgotten variant. [image] Description: The Wessex Commando Mk.1 is essentially an HAS.1 which had its ASW equipment removed to make space for troops. These helicopters were mainly used in the com…

[SlowHandClap]

RIP lmao

[lxtav]

Found this of a Sea Lynx (HAS.2 i think) Carrying 4 AS.12s

source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGWJG4iYWqg (1:12 in)

[da12thmonkey]

Yeah, it’s HAS.2 XX510 I think