Hello, first post here, hope I can convey my meaning well.
I get that on paper, the BR system of WT is flawed but quite functional. And yet, pretty much everyone has a handful of examples where it just fundamentally underperforms for the players who have drawn the “short end of the stick”. I’m looking to voice my desire to see this game improve in a positive way.
At lower ground BRs Heavy / Infantry tanks (take the Churchill mk 7, KV1z, kv1 premiums, T14 ect) are either immortal machines that a majority of vehicles DO NOT have an answer to. Or they are kind of a literal joke. Arguably this is due to game design - and that is a valid contributor - but when the difference in a +1 / -1 is between aphe that is sat around 100mm of pen at point blank un-angled, or apds / heatfs with >200mm of pen at 1km away. It seems impractical to pretend like these situations are ok or for the solution to be “don’t bring the vehicle” - the logical endpoint of that argument is don’t play the game and exacerbates the issue of one death leavers but I digress.
At higher ground BRs there are tanks whose only penetrable area is the size of a driver sight but now they have enough acceleration to wiggle even more effectively (especially at range). “Black hole BRs” are quite common but unlike low tier there’s less players to reduce the commonality of them (7.0 / 7.3 getting magnetised into the start of cold war 8.0 / 8.3). What are the unstabilised American tanks to do without mobility, survivability or terribly effective firepower against some of the sloped cold war armour.
In terms of air, its better in the sense that you’re not fighting entire line ups, just individual vehicles, however, its much worse in that there are plenty of vehicles that you just cannot engage in any sense of the word. The ME 163s and F104s in a downtier vs an uptier is appalling. Due to the TWR and agility you can either: catch it in a downtier and its a bad plane, or you cant and it stomps the entire team. And what do you suppose you do against the 5.7 spitfires in an La-7, c.205, or a p-47?
From where I’m standing, it seems logical to do one of two things. Either change the +1 / -1 of Br for certain types of vehicles by either making it +0.7 / -0.7 or instead stopping them from seeing certain vehicles as much (fox 3 missiles, cold war heat-fs). Unfortunately this would cause arguements over what should and shouldnt be classified as what but would improve certain struggle worthy BRs unless its applied to every vehicle and then it would work pretty well. Alternatively decompress battle rating significantly. There has been minor attempts to try and combat this over-compression of certain BRs but without raising the ceilings for the battle type, its just shifting the problem along until more advanced top tier vehicles are added. On top of this there are also BR changes that further cause compression. So I suggest increasing the BR cap by ~1.0 for both air and ground (I can’t speak for naval) as this would allow for at least 3 different BRs to be “created” to alleviate issues in either game mode. I’m not the most qualified by any means to say where most of these should go as I have not grinded out multiple nations and I do not know where the worst compression occurs.
I know people have been saying this and will continue to say this for a long time but its tiresome to face the same problems repeatedly without any visible desire from Gaijin to make any of this better in a meaningful way.
I would be happy to see any disagreements or discussion on this post as I don’t want people to keep talking about this and not just accept compression as the norm. ♥
I think that any hard limits on MM are bad, because it will always lead to certain vehicles dominating, and others being very bad. There’s also a lot on inconsistencies on when a nation gets certain equipment.
However, I do think +/- 0.7 MM is the current best solution if gaijin does not decompress the game. The only downside is that there are less ways to balance in a single BR bracket.
Proper decompression will always remain the best solution.
Wish this was happening to me when I was grinding Israel’s 8.0, as most of my games have been at least 8.7. I probably got two or three full downtiers in like several dozen of games.
There are lots of fair points in this argument but realistically I think providing a solution in where you have to decrease the uptier/downtier system would end up badly.
I think this is a good solution, but to be honest I’d decompress more. Even to 20.0 queue times would remain perfectly fine, in heed of a 1.0± uptier/downtier system, but most people don’t want this because they feel it would be hard to balance it. I just wish gaijin would do it and if the community says something is unfair, look at it and say well I guess it is pretty unfair. Lets move it this or there. But they don’t.
Side note: Avoid AlvisWisla. He’s a forum troll and really just tries to anger and annoy people
Absolutely ludicrous take, it 100% would increase queue times if the +1 -1 mm still was a thing. Saying this just invalidates everything you wrote after.
This is a non issue, people complaining on leddit and forums many such cases. Decompression is not a solution that solves anything other than shifting the “problem” to another place. You move up 10.3 to 10.7, 9.3 becomes a problem, you move up 9.3 8.7 ect ect ad infinitum. It doesnt solve anything.
I get into battles as soon as I queue, even when I play on exclusively NA servers. I legitimately think player count has grown enough to do this and not see it as a big effect as you think it is. I do understand the thought between thinking 20.0 might be too much, but I think I would want to see that over a LONG period of time, around 3 years and maybe lower the difference, to around 15-16.0, assuming more vehicles are added.
Realistically, if done over time the goal would be to even it out and balance some vehicles a little bit better. You wouldn’t move up 9.3 and 8.7 because if you followed that pattern everything would be 3.0 plus or the such. Decompression works, just over long periods of time. Like imagine if the game was only 1.0-10.0 right now. Where would the vehicles be at? well, they would be where they are BR-wise right now.
“decompression” in your eyes is just new vehicles being added at a higher BR. There has been literally almost no decompression through the timeline of this game.
I don’t care about uptiers that much. I just agree with the sentiment that having vehicles that perform insanely different at the same BR is a problem. My problem is not so much with Uptiers/Downtiers, as I think they benefit the players to learn how to combat vehicles better than them and provide a larger variety of play. My real problem is in the air, in which I think is a lot more different competitively BR to BR, especially 7.0-9.7 and I could care less if they decide to decompress ground, as I definitely don’t see that problem as much.
not even close, entire br brackets have been “moved up” to decompress the game it has done nothing other than memory hole players into complaining about the same thing again. Recently the entire 9.7 and up brs were up tiered. So no idea what you are talking about.
CAP
ok if those tanks are a problem then move them only you dont need to change the entire structure of the game. Also give me an example of a tank so broken compared to its peers that it warrants a up tier?
You just don’t want to give up on your argument but realistically only a few changes in decompression have been made, totaling around 1 BR not considering the addition of newer vehicles. moving up a BR bracket is not decompression, adding a BR and shifting vehicles is, if you can understand that.
Most logical argument i’ve seen all day, regardless.
T-55AM-1, which I personally have played a lot, is a very good vehicle with good armor, mobility, and just a significantly well rounded tank. I personally believe it is much better than its peers including the M60A1 Rise passive, (no german peer,) the chieftan MK 3(and 5,) (no japanese peer,) chinese OBJ122 is good, no argument for that, (no italian peer,) the French AMX-30B2, the Strv 104, and the Sho’t Kal Gimet. its a very good tank but personally, I’m not sure it belongs at 9.0, as the difference in those tanks may be too much to move it up. I personally think it would be okay. I just think its good compared to its peers and that it is in many aspects better than them.
no that’s not what decompression is adding 12.0 was not decompression when it did basically nothing for balance. You are just talking about br updates.
idk i dont think it is as good as the leopard a1a1 or xm1c. Its strong for its br but not so much better than its peers that it needs adjusting.
T-72 derivatives, T-80 derivatives, half of the Leo 2s. My bad with the American tanks around that BR ig, I’ve only ever heard that they were shit from people I’ve talked to and in my experience facing them. I agree, the entire post was about DEcompressing or doing something to that effect, I think I also said that the +.7 / -.7 was a stopgap measure worse than actually decompressing
plenty of vehicles perform completely fine - if not better in an uptier due to their particular strengths and BRs - primarily in ground RB. But it seems a bit facetious to think that not wanting to face F-104s in a SAAB105 / Javelin is “cope” - there are many vehicles that cannot perform in a bad uptier, not performs worse or is hard to perform but simply cannot position or be played in a way that allows them to be playable unless opponents make mistakes.
And yet if you downtier them by an extra .3 they become obscene and unfair.
I think of the BR system as less of absolute values but as a percentage to top tier, if the top is raised it doesn’t make the top tier better obviously, but it allows for smaller increments to be made - more fine tuning of balance. (Though not to say this can just be done perpetually)
I dont trust gaijin to make any changes to the game that would make it better, almost every single change they have made in the past 2 years has been a net negative in terms of enjoyment. They cant even fix basic sound design why would you think they would be able to balance over 1000 vehicles?
The thing is, 0.7 can never be a stop-gap cause that requires more man-hours than decompression itself.
As a video game company, you have to do all the balancing work before the matchmaker change, which is the same kind of work as decompression, especially when so few BRs are compressed left.
That is just false. All jet BRs are quite compressed except 11.0-12.0, and ground is quite compressed between 2.7-3.7, 5.7-7.0, 8.0-9.3, and I’m sure you can add an extra 0.3 around top tier.
I also think that you’re overestimating the amount of time and effort it would take to switch to 0.7, because I really don’t think that any vehicles will suddenly become much better or worse because of it.
Gaijin has clearly shown that they do not care about decompression (look at the last BR changes), and 0.7 MM is easy, and it will benefit WT.