Several vehicles are overtiered due to missing features that became standard at higher tiers. They struggle significantly in their BR range despite being statistically placed correctly. Three examples from the French tech tree:
MARS 15 (8.3 BR)
No stabilizer (standard at 7.7, 8.0+ across other nations)
Poor suspension causes massive gun bounce even after stopping
Optics unreliable post-stop due to lack of stabilization
Loses engagements to M41 Bulldog at 800m+ due to these mechanical disadvantages
Comparison: Centurion (7.7 BR), Sheridan (8.0 BR), Type 74 (8.3 BR), Type 59/69 (8.0 BR) — all have stabilizers or better suspension, mobility and armor.
Result: Overtiered by design flaw, not balance
AMX-13 (HOT) (8.3 BR)
Core vehicle is 7.0-level tank
ATGM system is unreliable below 200-300m (minimum engagement range)
Cannot penetrate reliably T-54 or Leopard A1A1 at close range despite 8.3 BR
Oscillating turret causes same suspension issues as MARS 15
No usable commander optics (deactivated on roof and makes vehicle easy as an HE target)
Result: Missile system bumps BR without compensating for vehicle weakness
AMX-30 SPAA (8.7 BR)
Lost APDS ammo years ago, reducing effectiveness dramatically
Was 7.3-7.7 BR before successive nerfs pushed it to 8.3, then 8.7
Now at 8.7 without APDS while Russian ZSU-37-2 (7.7) and ZSU-23-4V have equal or higher pen values AND radar
New Chinese SPAA has 86mm pen at point blank + better armor, sits lower BR
Result: BR never adjusted downward after ammo removal
Why Vehicles Stay Overtiered
These aren’t balance successes — they’re abandonment. Nobody plays them (90%+ attrition). They’re so frustrating that the playerbase self-selects out.
Proposed Solution
Implement BR matchmaking caps for overtiered vehicles: set a maximum BR ceiling to prevent worst-case uptier scenarios.
Example: MARS 15 caps at 9.0 matchmaking max (won’t see 9.3 T-72, MBT-70, etc.)
Why This Works
Vehicles like these ones mentioned stay at their listed BR (no dev rework required)
Prevents unplayable uptier situations
Preserves balance at their assigned BR
Precedent: Similar BR-related adjustments have been made historically (SPAAs receiving BR changes, certain vehicles getting matchmaking adjustments…) This continues that pattern of addressing viability issues.
Alternative Solutions (if capping is impractical)
Lower BR:
MARS 15 → 8.0,
AMX-13 (HOT) → 8.0,
AMX-30 SPAA → 7.7 or 8.0
Mechanical fixes: Add suspension stiffness at least to MARS 15, activate commander optics of AMX-13 (HOT) and straighten ATGM trajectory
Combination: Lower BR + mechanical tweaks
Why It Matters
These vehicles represent sunk-cost frustration for players who grind them. A matchmaking cap or BR adjustment gives them viability without punishing players who already researched them.
Should overtiered vehicles receive BR matchmaking caps or BR adjustments to become viable? (Select all that apply)
No changes needed (please provide your reasoning in detail)
0voters
COMMUNITY INPUT
If you have other examples of overtiered vehicles that fit this pattern (missing features, poor matchup, low usage), please share them with vehicle names and BR. The more documented cases, the stronger this discussion becomes for developer review.
If this thread gains community support, I’ll resubmit it as a formal Suggestion in the appropriate category to reach the development team directly🤙
those don’t help if you can’t land shots reliably. At 8.3, every other tank has a stabilizer. The MARS 15 bounces wildly even post-stop, so that good ammo is wasted if your gun isn’t accurate.
Comparing to MBTs is relevant because at 8.3, that’s what you face in uptiers and downtiers. As mentioned, you don’t fight M41 Bulldogs; you fight T-72s, Leopards, T-55, Centurions and others alike. The Sheridan has 12sec reload, yes, but it also has stabilizer + better mobility + and a laser guided missile launcher at 8.0. The MARS 15 has none of those compensating factors.
The point: good ammo doesn’t matter if you can’t use it effectively due to mechanical disadvantages. That’s the overtiering issue
the AMX-30 SPAA lost APDS ammo years ago. That changes its BR justification completely.
It can’t effectively counter tanks anymore (which it could with APDS), so the “defeats 8.7 CAS” capability doesn’t compensate for being helpless in ground combat. That’s exactly why a BR adjustment is needed.
dude… Shilka versions already exist at 7.3 BR. So yes, SPAAs CAN be at those lower BRs. That actually proves the point… the AMX-30 S DCA at 8.7 without APDS is overtiered when lower-BR Shilkas exist with better capability and pen.
good ammo means nothing if you can’t land shots due to lack of stabilizer. Every other 8.3+ tank has one, even 7.7 tanks. That’s the imbalance.
I think a lot of these struggle more from the over compression of the ~7.0 to 9.0 window
Over this window we see a majority of the meaningful (from a gameplay perspective) improvements start to appear broadly in the tree, including stabilizers, darts, ATGMs (competitive ones at least), lrf, thermals, significantly deadlier autocannons, ERA, commander over ride, etc (it’s not the first appearance for all these, but the frequency spikes in this BR window)
I think that it puts the devs in a tough spot from a balance perspective because they have to try to get a handle on all of these different improvements occurring while also dealing with varying playerbase skill between different operator nations. Adding an extra two steps in this window would probably be the best bet,
Nothing is BR’d for its average capabilities, nor should anything be. SPAA will always be BR’d for its best capability, and AMX-30 DCA is 8.7 in SPAA capability. APDS doesn’t matter, and if the enemy’s in your spawn, RIP.
And no, there is no radar-tracking Shilka at 7.3.
The fact you already can’t hit 8.7 CAS that has to get within 2km to effectively hit targets…
Working around stabilizers is something you should’ve learned from BR 1.0 BTW.
That’s it! That BR window is severely compressed. Stabilizers, darts, ATGMs, thermals, ERA all cluster around 8.0-9.0, which forces vehicles without these features into an uncompetitive position at the same BR.
The MARS 15 and AMX-13 HOT, as the chinese M41D, are victims of this compression. They sit at 8.3 but lack features that became standard by 8.0-8.3 in other nations. Adding BR steps in some way would help, but that’s a bigger systemic change.
In the meantime, either lowering these specific vehicles or capping their matchmaking would address the symptom while the root cause (BR compression) gets fixed.
Your point about decompression is the whole idea. It would help more than any individual BR adjustment.
Exactly. That’s the core issue. With MARS 15, you have to move to dodge long-range shots, but moving destroys your accuracy for several seconds after. Type 69 can move, fire on the move, and maintain accuracy because it has a stabilizer.
Even the M41 Bulldog (which doesn’t have a stabilizer either) recovers accuracy faster after moving than the MARS 15. So it’s not just “lacking a stabilizer.” The MARS 15 is particularly unstable like a boat in a storm compared to other non-stabilized vehicles at similar or lower BRs.
At 8.3 BR, you’re forced into a dilemma: stay still and risk getting shot, or move and lose all accuracy for longer than comparable vehicles. That mechanical disadvantage is what makes MARS 15 overtiered not ammo or range-finding, but that using those advantages requires accepting a penalty peer vehicles don’t face.
So are you still fine with this vehicle getting a full downtier and facing 7.3 vehicles?
FYI, the following vehicles at 8.0 or better do NOT have STAB
DF105
AMX-30 (1972)
Leopard 1
T-54 (1949)
M60
Magach 3/6
Type 87 RCV
Strv 103 (A)
CV 90105 …
The m41d is basically the same tank as the mars but worse in everyway, no stab, thermals, 76mm dart, and much slpwer than mars15, and the m41d is 8.0 so no mars shouldnt be the same br as a tank that its better than just because you got killed by it
if you actually read the poll, there’s a “Implement BR matchmaking caps” option specifically to avoid the compression concern you’re raising.
Your vehicle comparisons also cherry-pick advantages: DF105 has a large platform to start with (same as Marder or Maus, which make them much more stable), T-54 has more armor AND stability, M60 has more armor AND stability, Leopard 1 has more armor, CV90105 is 8.7 (what’s your point here?). These aren’t comparable they all have compensating advantages MARS 15 lacks.
The point isn’t “MARS 15 is the worst.” It’s "MARS 15 lacks stabilizer AND has particularly poor suspension recovery, which peers either don’t have or compensate for with armor/mobility." You’re listing vehicles that have both stability AND other advantages.
If you disagree with lowering BR, vote for “matchmaking caps” in the poll. That addresses the compression concern without the downtier issue.
You’re mixing up facts. I never said they should be the same BR. And if you actually read the poll, there’s a “Implement BR matchmaking caps” option specifically to avoid the compression concern you’re raising.
Also, your M41D comparison assumes you’re fighting a fully upgraded version. New players researching MARS 15 don’t have all modules unlocked. Stock MARS 15 with poor optics and no upgrades vs even a fully modded 6.7br M41 Bulldog is a completely different fight.
That’s exactly the problem; new players experience the vehicle at its worst while facing upgraded opposition. That’s why it’s overtiered.
Exactly. M41 Bulldog has stiffer suspension, which is why it recovers faster.
Well done and thanks for clarifying my point👍
MARS 15’s suspension is particularly poor compared to peer vehicles. That’s a mechanical disadvantage at 8.3 BR.
Implementing br matchmaking caps is the same as the 0.7 matchmaker people ask for as if you cant see a vehicle a whole br above you, it means you wont see a vehicle a whole br below you, it is a bad idea because it makes decompression even less achievable in the long run
Whenever two vehicles are being compared either one could be spaded or stock so generally it is ignored in direct comparisons and both vehicles are assumed to be spaded
Not what i said
Not like its the only unstabilised vehicle at 8.3 or above, anything under 9.0 with thermals is often unstabilised, such as most amx30s, the cv90105 tml
You stated it was standard for vehicles 7.7 and up to have STAB. I listed a bunch that did not have it. Now you want to move the goal-posts?
Mars has LR, reverse gearbox and scout UAV. We don’t want to forget about those. They help boost it’s BR. Don’t recall ANY vehicles below 8.3 that have scout UAV.
um… what? Maus is 188t and DF105 is 30t. Are you confused?
FYI - type 87 RCV at 15t weighs less than MARS15.
It’s funny how the HOT missiles can blast the T-72A/M1 right in the turret, it’s kind of busted, commander optics don’t matter too much unless it’s sim or whatever and wtm can’t it bust through the turret or LFP of Leo 1 same with the T-55A?