@Stockholm_Blend
Me: “Gaijin made a mistake putting F-15A down to 12.7.”
How is criticizing mistakes defending?
Kingskofi is the one that brought up 2S38, not I. So the rest of your post is obviously addressed to them.
Related citations:
The F-15A is stuck between 13.0 and 12.7; it doesn’t really feel right at either spot. But since they moved it down to 12.7, it’ll definitely see more play. Based on my experience, I don’t think 12.0–13.0 gameplay will change much after this update—except maybe the MiG-23ML will have one more thing to worry about, though not that often.
1 Like
The F-15A is superior to over 80% of 13.0s, and 100% of 12.7s.
It never had a reason being 12.7, let alone 13.0.
The only reason it stayed 13.0 was because Gaijin incorrectly downtiered a number of 13.7s.
3 Likes
Oh, well, he PMed me.
I wonder why he cannot make a reply openly, but okay.
Yep and they ain’t pushing them up in br anytime soon now, so I won’t touch 11.7+ for a while I guess…
Too bad, I wasn’t very far from unlocking the Mirage F1C, but I guess that’s for later
Well, I don’t think so. If even one of the three F-15A versions performed well in actual matches, things wouldn’t have turned out like this. GJ never publicly releases the combat performance stats for specific variants and game version, so my guess is that all three F-15As are actually underperforming.
And because of that, they’re forced to move it down to 12.7 since there’s no open space elsewhere.
1 Like
Nah I’m not convinced about that 0.7 braket idea anymore, it doesn’t allow enough br “precision”. What we need imo is pure decompression to like 17.0 at least, from 8.0 to top tier. Decompressing that way will create more different BRs in a given range of performance, so it will reduce the issue of one plane being sub-par in a specific BR and superior to others in the BR just below
3 Likes
We can solve 100% of compression issues with 16.0, but I get your concerns.
And I’m glad the precision of the existing matchmaking range is acknowledged more often.
2 Likes
How so? Compression starts to get really bad at 9.0 and then never ends all the way up, I haven’t thought the precise changes through but I doubt a bit that adding 1.3 to the total range would be enough… Can you develop a bit more?
Yeah it’s more problematic than it can seem because it means you sometimes have a direct upgrade of a vehicle being forced to be either the same BR, which is too low, or 0.3 higher at least, which is sometimes too much. That would be partially fixed by a good decompression, but I feel like it’d be nice to make shorter gaps to like 0.2
1 Like
Theoretically, you are right. We can solve 100% of compression issues with decompression.
But I don’t think we can make it on time.
Gaijin usually solving compression problem by ‘biasing USA/USSR’
Sending problem lower. typical stop-gap half-measures.
When everyone suffers by supersonic compression by those interceptors
Gaijin sent MiG-15 and F-86s lower. while Venom or Mysteres still rots in hell.
Thanks to that, it created extra compression on 7.0~9.0, and made those playing even harder.
Feels like playing F-84G/F seems meaningless to me nowadays.
And now, when everyone suffers from undertiered premium vehicles,
Gaijin decided to send F-15 down to 12.7, and already sent F-16A down to 12.3
while they neglected Netz for years.
In theory, you are right. But with this speed and this Gaijin’s stance, I think we will be doomed before it really happens.
I think I will never gonna spade my F-4K/M at this darkest hours.
3 Likes
Alright… let’s talk about 9.3.
15.0 gets added, EVERYTHING 10.3 onward is moved to 10.7 onward.
Examples, not limited to:
F-4C can move up to 10.3.
Mig-21S & SPS-K can move to 10.0.
F-100D & Mig-19 can move up to 9.7
F3H can move to 9.3.
Lim-5P & Alpha Jet [Thai primarily] can move to 9.0.
Mig-15 Bis & F-86F-25 can move to 8.7.
Mig-15 & F-86A-5 can move to 8.3.
7.0 - 10.0 impacted by a simple 0.3 change in BR.
1 Like
And 9.3 flareless subsonic gunfighters will still see 10.0/10.3 supersonic missile fighters with AIM-9L/R60M/Magic 1…
I see them eat missiles every day in my Mirage. I don’t even bother kill them because they die incredibly fast.
Haven’t ever touched 9.3 but pretty certain a full uptier isn’t playable at all.
Really what you described only solves a fraction of the problems at these tiers
5 Likes
The lowest BR 9L on a supersonic platform is F-5 at 11.0 [11.3 in my decompression post].
Magic 1 carriers defeated by forcing a dogfight or bait.
9.3s wouldn’t even see Su-25s because of this quote:
Cause there are no all-aspects at 10.0 currently, and 10.7 is away from 9.3.
Note how the primary examples I gave for 9.3 moving to 9.7 are two of the best supersonic dogfighters of 9.3. One with missiles, and one with hilarious flight performance.
1 Like
Was thinking of the premium A-10 but since it’s slow as hell I guess it can be tolerated (still short range deleter though, but more of an annoyance I guess)
In my entire time of playing the Mirage IIIC the amount of 9.3s who were able to defend from me can be counted on one hand
F-100D would be 9.7, and that thing should NOT see my Mirage. Also some MiG-21s are at 10.3 with R-60M yk
Sure they shouldn’t see what they see in downtiers at all. But they also shouldn’t see what they see in uptiers.
That is sad… especially if you somehow won against a Mig-19.
But you can add Mirage IIIC as an example alongside F-4C.
1 Like
I eat them alive usually, only died to them a few times. I felt that the airframes had potential when fighting them, but somehow the players never got them to their full potential and they ended up eating my rounds or magics. Gotta acknowledge though that the Mirage 3C is really powerful
For sure, as long as it stays the same relatively to higher BRs I fully support that. I literally started not using missiles against 9.0s and 9.3s at all because it made me feel bad…
1 Like
Been playing a bit of the F-15J again, since it got moved down, and honestly? I don’t think it’s a problem at it’s lower BR. Not with how completely ruined the meta is at 13.3/13.7.
The strengths of the F-15 basically don’t matter because it’s weak in the one area that’s directly relevant to winning games at these tiers, BVR (And, jointly, ARH missile performance). In a headon joust, the F-15 is at a crippling disadvantage against most of the planes it will end up facing.
You can’t play at higher altitude, which is where it is designed to fight, since you’ll be victimized by hordes of ARHs and R27ERs. You are forced to go defensive over and over, as higher performance missiles get slung back at you, while the F-15’s RADAR will drop lock the second the enemy even thinks about trying to notch. It’s not great at ground hugging either, thanks to it’s sluggish role rate.
But, if you do manage to survive the initial missile barrage, and make it to a position where you can actually exploit your strong flight performance and IR missiles, the game is already over. It’s not an exaggeration to say that, in every game I played in it yesterday, the outcome of the game was decided in that initial BVR engagement. Either you’re left with no enemies to fight (or maybe pick off one or two in a desperate race with the rest of your team), or you’re practically alone, and swarmed by so many planes that your advantages basically don’t exist.
In a vacuum, a powerful airframe with powerful IR missiles at such a low tier is a problem. But due to the current, awful meta around 13.0, you don’t really get a chance to feel it. Objectively, it needs to go up again, but there are much bigger fish to fry than the F-15s.
1 Like
Fixed for you, dear Alvis.
Being a mediocre 13.0 is a good enough reason to go down in BR. Fix its radar first before decompressing back.
Otherwise, let people enjoy things for once, you all people are reacting like the F-15A has always been a meta plane to begin with (Spoiler: It has been meta once for a couple months in two whole years since its release).
1 Like
16/21 is 76.2%. Not 40%.
And the last 5 jets it’s on-par to.
Implying the Su-27 and F-2A are mediocre 13.0s is wild.
If Su-27 or F-2A was moved to 12.7, I’d bet you’d employ double standards to defend those staying 13.0.
1 Like
Vastly overstated. The radar is fine.
As opposed to it just being more or less strictly better than every other 12.7 currently? It would still have missile quantity, FM, avionics, and CM quality/count.
This matters SO MUCH in air rb, especially when the F-16 doesn’t even win by such a margin where a slightly better pilot in the F-15 won’t just win anyway by taking better lines or being in a better speed bracket.
With near useless missiles.
Which is basically the worst excuse he could use. It has zero logical basis.
What at 12.7 comes anywhere close to F-15A/J performance?
This does not matter. If you go play 11.7-12.3 you WILL see uptiers to 12.7/13.0. In those games, the F-15 will curb stomp you because its strictly superior. You also cannot use “but muh uptiers” as an excuse for a jet simply being better than every other 12.7 just because it still sees uptiers.
Zero logical basis to say this.
Every 12.7 is now pretty much pointless to play, more so than they were before, because you should just play the F-15 instead. 11.7s now have to face F-15s, and 12.0-12.7 now has to face F-15s far more often where they are fully outclassed.
See the entire post above to debunk this.
1 Like