BR Changes (F-15A/J Topic)

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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The F-15A/J moving down to 12.7 may have seen good on paper, as at 13.0 they were suffering. However, at 12.7 they are simply put, too strong. They compared to other 12.7 aircraft have a better flight model, and a much better missile kit to pair with it. Most of the changes this last update were okay, but I think we need further changes.

Firstly, and this should be implemented regardless in the current state of Air-RB, we should have a change in the matchmaking, where instead of a 1.0 BR difference match, we should have a 0.7 BR difference match. This can be changed to where only 10.0 or 11.0 above see this change, but when flight performance is paired more with missile kits, it massively affects how much fun an aircraft is. Simply put, a MiG-29SMT should not face a Su-30SM, and a Tornado F.3 should not face a Mirage 4000. A simple change to the BR brackets could benefit most of top tier in the current state of the game, and parts of lower top tier.

Idea 1: We need a further decompression of the Air Tech Trees to minimum 15.7

The F-15’s strength and weaknesses for a simple 0.3 BR change can be seen from the compression of the air tree. 12.7, too strong, 13.0 too weak. Also with the premium Su-30’s, too strong at 13.3, average at 13.7. 14.7 was a good start, but we need further decompression to aid in not just top tier. This will help the lower top tiers and we could see a decompression spanning from 9.0-14.7.

Idea 2: Changes to kits at the 12.7-13.0 bracket.

If BR decompression is not an option for gaijin at the moment, then changes to kits should happen to certain aircraft. They could either do two things;
A: Make the F-15A’s kit a standard for all 12.7s, and only increase performance onwards for 13.0 (give 12.7 MiG-29 R-73s, F-16AJ 9Ms, F-14a 9Ms etc). This can level the playing field for 12.7, BUT I do not think doing this will help that braket of 11.7-12.3 when they get up-tiered.

B: Make the aircraft already at 12.7 before the changes the standard kit, ensuring the F-15A isn’t outperforming every aircraft in that bracket (Remove 9Ms from F15A, 9Ms/Magic-2 from F-16’s, give 9Ls to F-14A

I would rather prefer the first idea, as changing missile kits to every aircraft would be too drastic. If BR decompression is not an option, then changing matchmaking to 0.7 increase or decrease in brackets would massively benefit matchmaking, and I’m sure players wouldn’t mind an extra 5-10 seconds of queue time than to face a F-15A in an F-104S ASA

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gaijin is allergic to moving planes up in br, all these problems would’ve been solved if they moved the su30mkk up to 13.7 but they wont touch their cash cow till it stops selling (like the 2S38).

And now 11.7 - 13.0 will be compressed for the next 6 months

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Again, if they change the BR system to 0.7, not every, but a lot of issues would be fixed with compression. If they want to keep the 1.0 system they have, they need to decompress, otherwise the game will stay in an unhealthy state

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Just look at the ammount of bmpt and premium su30 they sold the game is healthier than it has ever been

Forget GTA 6 and what ever bmpt and premium su30 is the real product you want/s

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And a mediocre radar for 50% of its missiles.

Even if Gaijin removes its 9Ms to the F-15A/J/Baz, it’ll only have its FM as its strongest feature, while the radar is completely suboptimal to be 13.0 worthy. Damn, even the fox-1-based F/A-18s are more 13.0 worthy BVR-wise than the F-15A/J/Baz due to how lackluster its radar can end up being.

Im better with this. MiG-29s have no business going with R-73s+R-27ERs at 12.7 against Tornados with really hot engines.

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The f16 solos it in dogfights, There’s even an f16 at 12.3…

This is true

BVVD stream said they won’t do this because of queue times and having more variety of vehicles in a match.
The F15A/J is not that huge of an issue where you use it as a starting point for your discussion on air br when there are even more problematic planes. I have yet to get a pure 11.7-12.7 game, constant uptiers to 13.0-13.7. This br change did nothing for the F15a/j.

12.7 is more of a problem as they can face fox3. Fixing 12.7 is more important as 11.0-11.7 is an popular br bracket so uptiers are rarer compared to 12.7.

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Further decompression + changing the up/down tier limit to 0.7. So many of these vehicles that don’t do well at their BR yet are to good to move down could be easily solved with these changes yet they chose the solution that worsens BR compression.

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2S38 was moved up within a week of its release.
It stopped “selling” years ago.

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First of all, I wonder why you brought 2S38 up for defending another blunder, which they sent F-15A down to 12.7. Seems off-topic.

Hmm… I reckon that it isn’t false equivalence (which you love to misuse) this time.
Because both 2S38 and F-15 share one equal point, Gaijin’s Blunder.

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WDYM. It is still selling now.

Unless you mean it got powercreeped by BMPT.

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@Stockholm_Blend
Me: “Gaijin made a mistake putting F-15A down to 12.7.”
How is criticizing mistakes defending?

Kingskofi is the one that brought up 2S38, not I. So the rest of your post is obviously addressed to them.

Related citations:

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The F-15A is stuck between 13.0 and 12.7; it doesn’t really feel right at either spot. But since they moved it down to 12.7, it’ll definitely see more play. Based on my experience, I don’t think 12.0–13.0 gameplay will change much after this update—except maybe the MiG-23ML will have one more thing to worry about, though not that often.

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The F-15A is superior to over 80% of 13.0s, and 100% of 12.7s.

It never had a reason being 12.7, let alone 13.0.
The only reason it stayed 13.0 was because Gaijin incorrectly downtiered a number of 13.7s.

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What in the world that ‘2S38 stopped selling years ago’ becomes Gaijin made a mistake putting F-15A down to 12.7.

Honestly, with all respect, I think you are not criticising the mistake,
You are justifying it while you gaslight yourself as ‘I am criticizing Gaijin’

No, my post is obviously addressed to YOU.
Stop moving my goalpost from you to him.

BTW, I thought you blocked me because you didn’t replied quite a few of my replies in other topics. :/

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Oh, well, he PMed me.

I wonder why he cannot make a reply openly, but okay.

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Yep and they ain’t pushing them up in br anytime soon now, so I won’t touch 11.7+ for a while I guess…
Too bad, I wasn’t very far from unlocking the Mirage F1C, but I guess that’s for later

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Well, I don’t think so. If even one of the three F-15A versions performed well in actual matches, things wouldn’t have turned out like this. GJ never publicly releases the combat performance stats for specific variants and game version, so my guess is that all three F-15As are actually underperforming.

And because of that, they’re forced to move it down to 12.7 since there’s no open space elsewhere.

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Nah I’m not convinced about that 0.7 braket idea anymore, it doesn’t allow enough br “precision”. What we need imo is pure decompression to like 17.0 at least, from 8.0 to top tier. Decompressing that way will create more different BRs in a given range of performance, so it will reduce the issue of one plane being sub-par in a specific BR and superior to others in the BR just below

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We can solve 100% of compression issues with 16.0, but I get your concerns.

And I’m glad the precision of the existing matchmaking range is acknowledged more often.

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How so? Compression starts to get really bad at 9.0 and then never ends all the way up, I haven’t thought the precise changes through but I doubt a bit that adding 1.3 to the total range would be enough… Can you develop a bit more?

Yeah it’s more problematic than it can seem because it means you sometimes have a direct upgrade of a vehicle being forced to be either the same BR, which is too low, or 0.3 higher at least, which is sometimes too much. That would be partially fixed by a good decompression, but I feel like it’d be nice to make shorter gaps to like 0.2

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Theoretically, you are right. We can solve 100% of compression issues with decompression.

But I don’t think we can make it on time.

Gaijin usually solving compression problem by ‘biasing USA/USSR’
Sending problem lower. typical stop-gap half-measures.

When everyone suffers by supersonic compression by those interceptors
Gaijin sent MiG-15 and F-86s lower. while Venom or Mysteres still rots in hell.
Thanks to that, it created extra compression on 7.0~9.0, and made those playing even harder.
Feels like playing F-84G/F seems meaningless to me nowadays.

And now, when everyone suffers from undertiered premium vehicles,
Gaijin decided to send F-15 down to 12.7, and already sent F-16A down to 12.3
while they neglected Netz for years.

In theory, you are right. But with this speed and this Gaijin’s stance, I think we will be doomed before it really happens.

I think I will never gonna spade my F-4K/M at this darkest hours.

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