BR Changes - 11.3 is going to be Redfor only

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
1

These latest BR changes are absolutely insane and I have no idea how they were approved. The biggest problem is the 11.3 Bracket which will be totally dominated by the Mig-23MLD. No other nation will have a counter in the 10.3 to 11.3 Bracket, and even in the 10.7-11.7 / 11.0 - 11.7 bracket there are few options.

The problem

Soviets/Germany are getting the Mig-23ML, Mig-23MLA and worst of all, the Mig-23MLD lowered to 11.3. But no Blufor nation really had a counter until 12.0, so whilst the problem is bad, you could at least escape it on this rotation. This now means that 3/4 rotations, this bracket is totally soviet dominated and bluefor will be hard pressed to even stand a chance.

Aircraft Bluefor nations can bring to bear:

US:

[10.7] F-4E Phantom II - A Phantom with no PD radar and only rear aspect IR missiles

or

[11.3] F-5E - Decent dogfighter but doesnt have IFF on the radar. Only has weak rear aspect IR missiles

Britain:

[11.3] Phantom FGR2/FG1 - Decent BVR truck, but cannot dogfight, but has far weaker AAMs than the Mig-23MLD and is slower. Only chance of winning is to try and bait the Mig-23MLD up to alt.

[11.3] Sea Harrier FRS1 - Subsonic aircraft with only IR missiles, weak radar and CMs that barely work.

Israel:

[10.7] Kurnass - Another F-4 with no PD radar

(even when you consider the “allied” nations)

France:

[11.0] Mirage IIIE - low supersonic aircraft, with limited AAMs

or

Sweden:

[11.3] JA37C - Half decent dogfighter with only rear aspect missile

The situation doesnt change much.

And what will they be facing

Soviets:

[11.3] Mig-23MLD - Fastest Jet at the BR, great CM loadout, perfectly usable radar with MTI, All-aspect IR missile, best SARH at the BR. Decent handling (with manual wing sweep) and IRST

[11.3] Mig-23ML - Basically the MLD with a few minor downgrades

[11.3] Su-24 - Good base bomber

Germany:

[11.3] Mig-23MLA - Same as the Mig-23ML

[11.3] Tornado WTD61/MFG - Great base bomber

Italy:

[11.3] Tornado A200 - Great base bomber

[10.7] Mig-23MF - downgrade to the Mig-23ML but still good

Japan:

[10.7] F-4EJ Phantom II - F-4 no PD

As you can see. Basically the only aircraft that even comes close to the Mig-23MLD at 11.3 (and to be honest it doesnt get much better at 11.7 either) is the Phantom FGR2. Which is weaker in almost all-respects except for the fact it has 2x more SARH missiles (though inferior) and a marginally better radar. The only viable tactic for the FGR2 is try and bait the Mig-23MLD up to alt where the Skyflash have a marginally advantage over the R-24Rs. But if they hug the ground. MP will decide the fate well and truly into the favour of the Mig-23MLDs All-aspect IR missiles and better airframe.

Solution. Leave the Mig-23ML and Mig-23MLA at 11.7 and move the Mig-23MLD up to 12.0 where instead it will face aircraft that can actually compete such as the F-4S or Tornado F3. Instead lowering its BR down to a place where it will just steam roll again (like it did for the entirety of 2022.)

Or buff aircraft up to counter it, such as adding Aim-9Ls to Phantom FGR2 or Aim-9Ms to the Sea Harrier FRS1. Im sure the US F-4 also could recieve Aim-9Ls as well. this might change the balance of power from being a soviet only BR into one where all nations actually stand a chance to compete.

8 Likes
2

MLD’s SARHs are indeed inferior to FGR2’s vastly superior radar with on-par missiles.
9Ls would make FGR2 the same BR as EJ Kai for sure.

2 Likes
3

R-24R are superior to Skyflash DFs excpet when at altitude. At lower Altitudes R-24Rs win 8/10 times without fail.

Skyflash DFs barely work if you use PDV to guide them (need to work on a bug report for that actually I think, they are that unreliable) so you need to be at alt to try and use SRC.

PDV is extremely clunky to use on the FGR2 and assuming the Mig-23MLD is flying below 50ms, its a WVR fight anyway. At which point Mig-23MLD beats FGR2 everytime in a turn fight, FGR2 is slower than the Mig-23MLD so cant run awaym and R-60Ms are better than Aim-9Gs.

9Ls would put the FGR2 at the same performance level as the Mig-23MLD.

2 Likes
4

R-24Rs are defeated by chaff at all angles because of MLD’s trash radar that’s at best on-par with older NATO radars.
PDV is easy to use in sim cause of IFF + narrow band which MLD lacks narrow band as well as PD.
Flying above MLD makes you immune to death.

9Ls would male FGR2 vastly superior to MLD in all ways.
Right now FGR2 has on-par IR and radar missiles, with a vastly superior radar. Just don’t dogfight…

1 Like
5

Lmao no

6 Likes
6

Skyflash DFs are easily defeated by chaff because they just go for it all the time, and the Mig-23MLD has large calibre CMs vs the FGR2s standard calibre CMs. (i’ve litereally had a Skylfash DF miss a Mig-21 at 20k ft, flying in a straight line at me, not dropping any chaff. That is how buggy guiding a misisle on PDV is at the moment)

So FGR2 can onyl win if it flies at 20k+ ft and Mig-23MLD can onyl win if it flies at 100ft. So neither side will actually ever see each other. If the Mig-23MLD is smart. They will win everytime.

It also doesnt address the fact that you will be out numbered 3-1 all the time as Bluefor will be playing top tier or lower tiers to avoid the 11.3/11.7 brackets where they have nothing competitive, especially the US.

How can a rear-aspect IR missile be on par with an All-aspect IR Missile is beyond me. And considering the MLD has Large calibre flares, it can defeat any missile fired by the FGR2 with 1 press. R-60Ms take multiple and reducing to idle to defend. R-24Ts as well need to be considered. Which are extremely hard to defeat if employed properly.

TLDR: Dont play 11.3 or 11.7 then is basically what you are saying.

6 Likes
7

Skyflash requires the target to notch through. R-24Rs don’t cause it’s just a standard pulse radar as host.

Also it just requires enough altitude for the MLD’s radar to look up at any angle.
In air RB R-60Ms are on-par with 9J/9G. In sim they’re even more on-par cause rear-aspect missiles are stronger in sim than air RB, while front-aspect shots keep the same strength.

I’ve been playing that bracket of sim again for ~2 months [and longer in general] on and off and MLDs are among the weakest aircraft due to their trash radar + trash RWR. Note that’s a +, not or.

8

I personally think the changes are fine.

5 Likes
9

All the mig23 has to do is keep the lock and the r24r will hit, as long as the target plane is the largest radar signature

Lol try two years. The R-60M is cracked on head-ons and pulls hard, you have IRST for stealth shots, and the radar is as good or better than the one on the mirage f1 with a very good HUD to boot

The only reason why the mig23 is going down is because noobs buy the ml and bring it to sim thinking that they’ll get better rewards, only to get clapped in the dumbest ways

4 Likes
10

I’ve been playing sim for 5 years. What’s your point?

11

Its the idea that something like the Sea Harrier FRS1 is being considered on-par with the Mig-23MLD just confuses me. In what world are these 2 aircraft equal.

Or the fact the Tornado Gr1 now has a HIGHER BR than the Mig-23MLD. Its just insane. Bsaiclaly every 11.3 or 11.7 Bluefor aircraft is just rendered basically unplayable imo with the sole exception maybe being the Phantom FGR2, but all that takes is the Mig-23MLD to have half a brain cell and hug the ground to defeat.

1 Like
12

That you’re wrong and you don’t have enough experience in the br bracket to formulate opinions that ring true

3 Likes
13

Gaijin gives too much weight to a plane’s ground strike capability when calculating br. It’s really messy

1 Like
14

So years of experience isn’t enough?

Your post is claiming you don’t have enough experience either…
If over 3 years [whenever 11.3 vehicles were added] isn’t enough, then your 2 years isn’t enough to your own standards.

15

Yeah… Though its only theoretical base kills, not actual base kills most of the time.

I thought the days of having to try and sneak past a wall of superior soviet fighters that outnumbered bluefor 3-1 in the Tornado Gr1 were over and I could finally enjoy it. But that only lasted a few months it seems.

16

Experience doesn’t translate between br brackets. You could have 10 years of experience in any other brr, but it will amount to very little in 11.3, which is why all of the points you made make very little sense

17

You forgot the F-5E, which has very good missiles for the br and is often in redfor.

The only possible-ish counter is the Mirage F1 (11.7), and not a lot of people play it, much less properly

18

Unless im mistaken, its 11.7. So yes, will just make the 11.7 brackets even more unplayable, but wont impact the 11.3 bracket too much.

Same for the Mirage F1. Yeah, when France is allied with US/Britain/Israel. The Mirage F1s will probably be the strongest Bluefor aircraft in game and will basically carry bluefor teams… But… 50% of the time they are matched WITH the soviets which just makes things even worse for the Bluefor team as they now have to face the Mig-23MLD AND Mirage F1s with only really 11.0 and 11.3 aircraft (as most of the bluefor 11.7 stuff is ground attackers like the A-10C, F-111 and Gr1)

Britain and US have a real gap in fighters between 11.0 and 12.0 where things like the F-4S and Tornado F3 shine (im surprised neither of them have been nerfed though)

1 Like
19

Honestly, I’ll just leave this br bracket for redfor since they get absolutely stomped in higher brs; it’s their last fighting chance

20

Yeah… But just how Bluefor cant get any lobbies at top tier because redfor all quit. The same will just be true for 11.3 and 11.7 now but for Redfor.

Top tier is limited by available additions and cant really be fixed until soviets and china get better top tier aircraft (Which Im fairly certain the J-10 is already mitigating but im not playing that bracket at all at the moment)

But at least with the 11.3 bracket, aircraft could just get buffs or sane BRs to make things more balanced. If I play Sim at all (which im not because of a number of year old bug reports ive gotten completely fed up waiting for)

Its 10.7 or below in things like the Sea Harrier FRS1e or 12.0 in the Tornado F3.

But its just things like the fact they are refusing to lower the AMX A-1A or Sea Harrier FRS1 down to 11.0 but apparently the Mig-23MLD is an extremely weak aircraft at the moment and needed a major buff.

1 Like