The FM issue is partially the weird control logic of slats, back in other threads someone demonstrated that the slats allows up to 15% higher turn rate. Same with engine cooling especially for F variants.
That one really sucked. 5.3 sure but you will still suffer cause the engine is worse.
The issue with that is playstyle. That means it is sadly unfriendly to players, since u have to adjust against every enemy, and in not even full uptiers you will see planes that can just slap u in every way.
I mean I liked the 3.0 190A, but beyond that they are pretty sad, D9 is good though, the rest of the A variants suffered significantly.
They are similar to early Hispano but there is just one 151, with worse ballistics, and for earlier ones u’ve got 7.92 as the side instead of 50 cals.
That pretty much works for everyone, but u have to first ensure there ain’t any P38 or super mustang above ur head.
BF-109s in general climb well with good altitude engine performance and are all-rounders in most everything else. For the meta they are just worse in most ways against the soviet counterparts because high altitude performance isn’t that relevant if people ignore you at altitude and start ground pounding to bleed tickets
lol, lmao even. f4 is okay she probably the best new player 109, but the g14? lol
and mg151s aren’t defa/aden LMAO, they’re still literally worse than any other 20mm, but are now usable.
The fundamental issue is that neither the 109s nor the 190s are any good in WT. And no, they’re not “realistic” either. As some people have pointed out issues with the flaps and instructors. Yes, you can make them work, but even people doing well in them tend to do much better in other planes.
At the end of the day GJN decided to make them quite bad in terms of flight model and stats. Then implemented their armament in a way that it’s incredibly low velocity requiring you to be much better at aiming and getting close. And until recently real shatter lead to them doing virtually no damage even when you hit. They do perform better after some changes now, but still not as reliably or good as other similar armaments.
“If you do X you might be able to perform”, sure. But other planes who are vastly more versatile and can do X just as good or even better can do X and Y, and Z at the same time.
@KillaKiwi Not true, there’s a difference. The bigger shell is vastly less likely to hit due to lower velocity and all.
Actually they never had realShatter until recently.
Before realShatter, and when realShatter did hardly anything, 20mm Mineshells were still the most damaging shells.
Only after realShatter buffed structural damage to the extreme, their damaged seemed low but every other explosive shell was now simply better.
If 20mm Mineshells have no advantage in damage, they are simply going to be the worst shell.
It’s kinda hilarious that until recently we had and to an extent still have a 50cal meta. Because it can reliably knock out pilots and set planes on fire.
Imho the skill ceiling for a proper usage of 109s is rather high - but in the right hands and properly flown they are a real pain to fight. In other words: Excellent players perform well, rather mediocre players struggle.
2 examples:
I met 2 weeks ago an excellent player in a G-6 - 161:5 kills in FL G-6. I was aware of his abilities as i checked the enemy lobby right after spawn. My SM 92 is slower, but turns much better, has less high speed compression and can be flown with infinite WEP. But the G-6 played it to its strength (high - 5-7 km) and played energy together with another good pilot. They stuck together, murdered half of my team and i could not afford to attack. Replay link.. I had to outfuel them and won with 2 lousy pillbox kills by tickets (1.226 vs 1.213 😂).
From time to time i meet the player Oscar_GD (StatShark - See All Player, Missile, and Vehicle Statistics) - mostly in full downtiers with my UK Hellcat. He wipes whole lobbies with the 2.3 109 E-3 and i have to play around him as the E-3 is a monster if he flies it. He is in the Top 20 regarding Kills-per-Battle…
Whilst i agree to your general assessment i do not share “virtually no damage” - i used them quite successful in the SM 92 even as this might be related to that usually the 2 center-mounted MG 151/20 hit at the same time.
This is 100% correct - Type 99 mod 2 & Co are way easier to aim. Imho the ShVak is still ruling around 4.0 - it is not unusual to see rather mediocre players with 5 or 6 kills with one ammo load.
This is correct, but “reliably” just on a long term view - imho gaijin steers fires with RNG based on player success.
As a frequent US 0.50 cal user it is imho obvious that even with full API-T belts 5-6 hits JP on aircraft won’t start fires. On average i need just 2 hits with P-47 (full API-T) and 5-6 with the Hellcat (partly API-T) - but i lost over the years enough matches with a hell of hits and no result. Yesterday 6 hits (based on summary) on a BP B7A2 - nothing. My own tends to burn after one hit😂
Idk, I prefer by far autocannons because if you can aim them, you’re pretty certain to annihilate what you hit
Machine guns are easier to hit but they do far less damage
It’s not a slat issue. FM-wise, they feel MORE agile than Il2 109s. The WT 109F4 feels very squirrely compared to Il2GB and more “violent” in how it responds to the same inputs.
It’s an instructor issue. We need to be specific about what needs fixing and what’s an issue.
Flown with sim controls, the slats deploy properly. You need to be have something like 13 to 14 degrees angle of attack for them to deploy and the instructor limits you to a lower AoA. Critical AoA is 17.2 in the 109s (theoretical. In reality, the engine’s left-turning tendencies will prolly limit you to sth like 16.5 or sth with careful rudder inputs).
This same instructor limit applies to a lot of aircraft, not just the 109s. It’s just very apparent in the 109s. Mustangs, Hellcats and corsairs also suffer from it off top of my head.
While I agree for Hispanos, Shvak and co. The German WW2 ones are really bad. Well not quite as bad anymore since recent changes but still not good. I’d honestly take almost any other gun over them.
Depends on BR and vehicle u are facing though, heavily. The 108 will get the job done if u managed to hit them. 151s, well more recently I have not really played them, but if they haven’t improved massively, I would still say since it is a single nose gun they actually need to do sort of more damage than other guns for it to work well.
Not surprising. E3 is simply damn good. Ans around 2.3 it doesn’t have any real opposition, Yak-2KABB has 1 shot, but if it fails, 109 wins the dogfight eventually.
E3 is damn hard to counter. Though in Hellcat I would be pretty damn confident in just shooting him to hell using stealth belts in a head-on :P
Regarding 2 players killing your team - I think 2 good players in almost anything decent are an absolute PITA to face.
With Me163 Komet we once wiped 5 enemy jets and 3 6.0-6.7 props in a 2 v 8 fight using Ta-152Hs. It was not difficult, as enemies were not attacking all at once and it mostly felt like a few quick 2 v 1s and then some 2 v 2 action, because random lobbies are not abuntant in people capable of actually planning their attack. The right way of dismantling a deadly duo is dragging them down and then swarming/BnZ. Takes about 30IQ, which is like 22 more than average WT player.
However, I agree 109s can be deadly. If G6 can spiral climb people to death, it’s very fun. But if G6 has to fight goddamn US 4.3 jet-Zero hybrid, or a swarm of Yak-3s who have some idea of what they are doing and F4U4s and similar stuff then it’s just a world of pain.
I also absolutely hate the fact I have to run away from 3.7 BR Japanese premium pay2win “bomber” (I own one and it’s ridiculously good).