Australian & New Zealand Helicopter Sub-Tree

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Australian & New Zealand Helicopter Tree

Introduction

I would like to bring forth a suggestion for an Australian & New Zealand helicopter tech tree. My dream is to have Australian/New Zealand tech trees implemented in War Thunder. Obviously not as standalone tech trees, especially since our ground content would not cover a standalone tech tree, but with a partner nation/region (Canada makes a lot of sense and would be perfect) we still could offer a lot. Here I wanted to start small, as helicopter trees are relatively light on content compared to air, ground and naval but with any luck I’ll find the motivation and time to do those as well.

Ultimately Gaijin may/will implement trees as they see fit, my goal here is simply to suggest these nations as a tree, wherever they end up.

The Tree

I’m not particularly hung up on the BRs, they are mostly indicative of their general position and Gaijin will place them as they see fit regardless. I am totally open to suggestions for BR and name changes though.

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Below I have also presented my original draft of the tree in excel format. I have color coded the vehicles in green, to represent Australia as the operator, and black, as New Zealand the operator. I included this as I felt it was easier to read.

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The Vehicles

As it stands, this tree has 3 market unique variants of helicopters, and 4 helicopters that as far as I can tell are basically the same as their origin country’s model.

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UH-1H Bushranger

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 204km/hr

Rate of Climb: 8.1m/sec

Armament: XM21 weapon system carrying 2x 7.62mm miniguns with 9600 rounds of ammunition, and 2x 7 round 70mm folding fin aerial rocket launchers. 2x door gunners, each side having 2x M60 machine guns with 1500 tracer rounds.

Brief: This unique Australian gunship modification of the UH-1H is a national icon of the Vietnam war and served in the Australian defence force right up until 2004. I have included a link to the Bushranger story below. With no guided AGMs I see it being a similar BR to Japan’s UH-1 already in game. The added machine guns and miniguns will not improve its effectiveness in War Thunder much, however the door gunners, if given the bomber turret gunner mechanic, might be useful on occasion.

https://raafansw.org.au/avMat/TBS_FirstEdition_Rev2021.pdf

UH-1B Ned Kelly

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 217km/hr

Armament: XM16 weapon system carrying 4x forward firing M60 machine guns, and 2x 7 round 70mm folding fin aerial rockets. 2x door gunners, each side having 2x M60 machine guns.

Brief: The prototype gunship Huey based on the Bravo model. Slightly worse than the UH-1H Bushranger, but the beginnings of a legend and a possible premium option. This same page I linked for the UH-1H also covers the Ned Kelly.

https://raafansw.org.au/avMat/TBS_FirstEdition_Rev2021.pdf

SH-2G Super Seasprite

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 255km/hr

Rate of climb: 12.7m/s

Armament: 2x AGM-65D Maverick or 2x Mk 46 torpedoes

Brief: New Zealand had five SH-2G Super Seasprites before taking on ex-Australian SH-2G (I) helicopters. This could be placed in an interesting place within game, having two missiles that might be quite effective for the BR, but only two before needing to land and reload. Having naval capability also sets up this tree for if/when the game heads in that direction for naval battles. Since the regular tech tree would get the later SH-2G (I) Super Seasprite anyway, the G model makes a good option for a premium.

SH-2G (I) Super Seasprite

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 256km/hr

Rate of climb: 12.7m/s

Armament: 2x AGM-119 Penguin MK2 or 2x Mk 46 torpedoes

Brief: New Zealand had placed an order for SH-2G Super Seasprites at the same time Australia did, the first 5 coming in to service in 2001. Australia’s program for the SH-2G (A) however ran way over budget and eventually was decided it no longer even fit the requirements. In 2013 New Zealand announced it would buy 10 of Australia’s 11 Super Seasprites and they were redesignated the SH-2G (I). Just how or whether the Penguin AGM could be used to aim at tanks, I’m not entirely sure (the guidance system to me suggests it could be aimed at tanks), however it could once again offer a potentially quite powerful missile at a lower BR than expected due to the helicopter only being able to carry two.

EC-665 Tiger ARH

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 290km/hr (with armament)

Armament: 1x 30mm GIAT M781 Cannon, up to 54x Thales FZ90 70mm rockets with APKWS laser guidance, up to 8x Hellfire II AGM missiles progressively through time in AGM-114M, AGM-114R and AGM-114R2 variants

Brief: Link to suggestion post The Tiger ARH is the Australian version of the EC-665 Tiger, the first 4 were assembled in France while the next 18 were assembled in Australia.

MH-60R Seahawk

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 333km/hr

Armament: Up to 2x Mk 54 torpedoes, up to 4x AGM-114 Hellfire II in AGM-114N and AGM-114R variants, 19x AGR-20/A APKWS rockets, 1x door mounted GAU-21 heavy machine gun

Brief: The MH-60R Seahawk is obviously the naval variant of the Blackhawk. This version can not carry as many Hellfire missiles but still has APKWS rockets to back them up and a full suite of radars, sensors including MAW and countermeasures. If helicopter door gunners ever get the bomber turret mechanic in game, it’s another little added tool (albeit probably not that useful). Australia has 23 currently in service and another 13 on order.

AH-64E Apache Guardian

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Specifications:

Top Speed: 293km/hr

Armament: 1x 30mm M230 chain gun, up to 16x AGM Hellfire II missiles expected to carry on with Australia’s stocks of AGM-114R2 variant, up to 76x 70mm rockets like to carry on with Australia’s APKWS weapon stocks

Brief: The Tiger ARH is scheduled for replacement in the Australian Army with the AH-64E with deliveries commencing in 2025, and expected to come in to service in 2026. 29 are on order, part of me hopes we get them painted in Australian camo.

Why is Australia and New Zealand Together?

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Australia and New Zealand are so geographically and geopolitically intertwined that historically when it comes to military matters, we are basically one. Both countries were founded by the English Empire, and were Empire states prior to the forming of the Commonwealth, and both are still members of the Commonwealth today. It is not commonly known, but during the Federation of Australia, New Zealand was offered to become a state of the country of Australia (along with Fiji) and while they declined, it is still written within the Australian Constitution that they can join any time if they changed their mind.

ANZAC stands for Australian & New Zealand Army Corps, and was a joint army corps between the two nations during WW1. The term was also used for joint cooperation between Australia and New Zealand during WW2 and Vietnam. ANZAC Day (an event suggestion I have posted here and has been passed to developers) is a nationally observed public holiday in both nations in remembrance of all Australians and New Zealanders that have served.

Conclusion

I will repeat that I am totally open to suggestions here, name changes, BR changes, new vehicles to add, I’d love to hear it all. I feel Australia in particular can offer the game a lot, with indigenous designs across air, naval, and ground, and locally modified/built unique variants across air, ground, naval and heli. New Zealand would mostly be “copy paste” vehicles, they could be handled in such a way that their vehicles could be premiums or tech tree depending on requirement, but any Australian inclusion simply must include New Zealand as well for reasons mentioned above. And with that said, I’d be thrilled to have those “copy paste” vehicles in Australian and New Zealand skins within our trees regardless.

8 Likes
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This tech tree could bolster up the British helicopter tree that is existing already in-game and is in dire need of a vehicle boost.

However, I would not opt out for all of these vehicles, but just a part of them to be present in the tree. I will definitely exclude the UH-1 series if all they’ve got is launchers with only 7 FFAR missiles, Italy already has the AB.205 and it suffers from the same issue: too little antitank armament in order to do anything decent in game (War Thunder simply lacks soft targets for the machine guns to be effective enough). Also, it doesn’t help that the rockets don’t have a good flight pattern, so you can’t be precise with them. Japan’s UH-1B is in a better state since it gets access to 38 FFARs, but even this one is fairly limited compared to other helicopters, like AH-1G (which gets up to 76 rockets).
The SH-2G could work like AH-6M or the OH-58 (limited armament, but deadly and accurate) at 10.0 - 10.3, but I would go for just 1 of the 2 variants. The limited loadout will make it a nice support vehicle, but will force players to choose carefully which targets to engage and from where (if the target can run into cover, the missiles will be wasted and you’ll be forced to return to helipad quickly).

For the other vehicles, I have no objections, as long as their armament will be available to other nations as well (especially for the other, newer Hellfires).

4 Likes
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+1 I have both a short and long-term want with this.

Short: For the UK tree as both fit. Well, I can’t exactly comment on this but it might help.

Long: Sub-tree for a Canadian TT. It would help greatly as Canada really only has ASW Helis.

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Agreed, the AGM-114R Hellfires need to be introduced probably for America first.
And yes, rocket helicopters are probably the most useless vehicles in War Thunder. But the Bushranger is fairly iconic in Australia.

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I would so love an Australian/Canadian/New Zealand tech tree. I would definitely throw some money in to that, all the crew slots, all the premiums, probably some crew xp to get started. At least.

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Hey that’s my idea.

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I’ve been the one going about the Canadian TT with ANZAC sub-tree.

As it’s a Win-win for both(sorta) and helps each other.

But do to the fact we don’t have a Canadian TT I had to add a in game idea I’m ok with.

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I’ve been wishing for a combined Australian/Canadian/New Zealand TT for a year or two now. It is honestly the best way to introduce both Australia and Canada. We both have history of sharing military tech as well, especially during the WW2 era. I don’t know that I’d class one or the other the main and sub nations for the tree, Australia has a rather large amount of air content to offer and a comparably reasonable amount of ground content.
New Zealand has very VERY little to offer in the way of unique vehicles, I’d say the Schofield tank, A-4K Kahu and above Super Seasprite are all that come to mind. (I say that with limited knowledge of their naval) Their inclusion would be simply out of respect for the ANZAC spirit. With most of the rest of their vehicles being “copy paste” they could be handled as either premium options or if the TT itself has a need to help round out a BR, they can go in. (Edit: Just realized I repeated myself in the OP about New Zealand lol)

But anyway, back to the heli tree at hand, is there any feedback on what, if anything, I should add to the OP? More detail on anything? I am hoping to get the template down pat with this heli tree as I may use it for Air, Ground and Naval tree suggestions.
And did anyone spot any errors with the vehicles themselves? I couldn’t find any others worth adding, but if you know of any please share!

1 Like
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Truthfully I’d rather both the ANZACs and Canada to get their own tree but…

Well having no one as the main would be better, Gaijin has soft confirmed there needs to be a “face” nation when they declared Swdden to be a Nordic tree.

We can cross out New Zealand as they wouldn’t be the host in any combo. That leaves Canada and Australia. Canada seems to have the upper hand as both Australia and New Zealand use Canada’s domestic modern ground vehicle, the LAV (LAV-II and LAV-III respectively), and well I think Australia has more aircraft(and domestic props) but Canada has multiple domestic jets on top of a few domestic props.

It’s a 50/50 I wouldn’t be mad if Australia is the face but it looks like Canada makes sense.

May I recommend this?
https://przemyslaw-zan.github.io/WT-Tech-Tree-Maker/

It allows you to make one that looks like WT’s TTs.

1 Like
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It would also be cool to see the RNZAF A.109, seeing as the model is already ingame

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Mindless nationalist fantasy - all these “I want my country to have its own tech tree” threads are ridiculous - this one more so than many!

And I say this from Wellington!

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I don’t think it carries any weapons though, I tried checking on that one.

1 Like
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I’ve been having a look at the tech tree maker and I probably would like to use it. Especially since I don’t think using an excel screenshot will work when I make a larger tree like aviation or naval. I always expected this heli tree to be a work in progress and learn from the experience before making others.

Now I need to ask a dumb question, can I save drafts on that tech tree maker? Not sure what the backup button does. Also, when it’s finished and you click the export tree button I’m guessing that creates some sort of format that can then be posted on the forums?

I’m also considering adding an “Honorable Mentions” section to the OP, I had always intended to do it if/when I create an aviation tree, but realized I could do it for helicopters as well. These would be vehicles that don’t currently fit in the game, but could be added at some point in one way or another. In the case of helicopters, this would be naval helicopters. With only torpedoes and depth charges and the like, they wouldn’t suit the game to be added in a helicopter tree as they have no use in ground battles. The COULD still come in the form of ships that carried them being able to deploy them.

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It seems to save but at the same time anytime you close it, it tells you it might not save.

This created a backup to your PC just in case it doesn’t save.

As far as I can tell this makes a file you can send to others to use in the program. (I and the others I know have just been using screenshots. You’d have to ask around to see if you can find more info about the program)

1 Like
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I used the tech tree creator and added it to the op. I will also keep the original excel file screenshots (now hidden) because they’re a bit easier to read IMO. And I don’t think I have the necessary accounts etc. to host the tech tree creator as a proper image anywhere, so it’s literally also just a screengrab.

16

+1, hopefully for an Aus/Can/NZ TT

2 Likes
17

what is the difference between the uh1c vs the uh1c ned kelly? is it just because its named after a world famous outlaw

18

The difference is the Ned Kelly was a UH-1B.

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well other than that what differences were there

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Aside from being a UH-1B and UH-1H respectively, they also have different weapon mounts with different machine guns. Not that that would make much difference in how they play in War Thunder.

1 Like